Apex Jr. OR Full sized unit, new, used ?

427HISS

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I think,....I've finally decided to purchase a Apex system.

If I do, it will be for the 125g mixed reef that I'm setting up.
The budget is fairly low, so a well cared for system may be ok,
but I hate buying used electronics, of any type.

The new full sized units are way too expensive for me.

Please check out my build thread and either comment there or
here. I really need you Apex Guru's to explain what I need,
what to control, the Jr. or full sized and any and all advise !

I know NOTHING about the Apex's and I have trouble understanding all the hookups, what add-on apex
products I need/want, what comes with each type of controller ect.......:tongue:

My 125g build thread- (I have a list of products I have to control)

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/eq...p-setting-up-125g-mixed-reef.html#post2253356

Thanks,
Kevin
 
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Damon

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Depends on the person and a ton are going to say to get at least the full blown unit, but I went with the junior this time "after" having a full blown apex. My reasons are, basically I know what I want to control and how I want to control it. I learned last time that I really don't need a ton of modules(maybe 2 to 3). But what I do need are power bars, the bob, and that's it.

I have the pm1 with a pH probe, and I am going to add a bob on it. This allows me to monitor pH, temp, and more importantly, I can add switches. Float switches (ato), water sensor switches (no need for the Neptune one and I can save some coin by programming the raw sensors), and also, I did and am going to do under Cabinet lighting that activates with my door. I also am thinking about doing a smoke detector if I can find one. I also purchased an extra eb8, so I am controlling and monitoring 12 things.

My thought was, the things I purchased, I still would have had to, whether or not I purchased the full blown system. I had to do so the last time. I listened to the argument that the cost of the pm1 and probe would take me to the price of the full blown, but once again, for my needs and the modules, I still had to spend that money, on top of the 600.00 I paid up front. Lol, so now, I am in maybe 450.00(I didn't completely total it up), but 500.00 at the most, versus I think almost 800.00 off the top of my head. I still have 3 more modules if I want, and I know I am going to get some vortechs again, so that's one. I may do salinity, but then, I can just as easily just buy a digital refractor and call it a day (like I did before).

But ultimately, it depends on your needs..

So my vote is for the Jr from the standpoint of having both.
 

glb

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Depends on the person and a ton are going to say to get at least the full blown unit, but I went with the junior this time "after" having a full blown apex. My reasons are, basically I know what I want to control and how I want to control it. I learned last time that I really don't need a ton of modules(maybe 2 to 3). But what I do need are power bars, the bob, and that's it.

I have the pm1 with a pH probe, and I am going to add a bob on it. This allows me to monitor pH, temp, and more importantly, I can add switches. Float switches (ato), water sensor switches (no need for the Neptune one and I can save some coin by programming the raw sensors), and also, I did and am going to do under Cabinet lighting that activates with my door. I also am thinking about doing a smoke detector if I can find one. I also purchased an extra eb8, so I am controlling and monitoring 12 things.

My thought was, the things I purchased, I still would have had to, whether or not I purchased the full blown system. I had to do so the last time. I listened to the argument that the cost of the pm1 and probe would take me to the price of the full blown, but once again, for my needs and the modules, I still had to spend that money, on top of the 600.00 I paid up front. Lol, so now, I am in maybe 450.00(I didn't completely total it up), but 500.00 at the most, versus I think almost 800.00 off the top of my head. I still have 3 more modules if I want, and I know I am going to get some vortechs again, so that's one. I may do salinity, but then, I can just as easily just buy a digital refractor and call it a day (like I did before).

But ultimately, it depends on your needs..

So my vote is for the Jr from the standpoint of having both.

Good info. I already have a great driver for my lights. I'd want to monitor my heater, Ph, and ato and maybe SG. Thanks!
 

Reefcrazed417

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I
would buy the full apex used for a little more than a jr. Neptune sys has always been good about reasonable repair rates on products
 
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427HISS

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Damon, I will look forward to our call.

I just get so,.....confused ! :squigglemouth:

Will the Apex control my Maxspect Razor 420 lights ? (I did not see them listed on Neptune's sight)

Will it control any powerhead brand, from Tunze, Maxspect's Gyre to even Jebao ?

I like the idea on Apex controlling everything,......and alerts.

I see that the Fusion will work on my Tablet. I also use it for controlling my
lights on a different tank. But what's the differences between the
full apex, Jr, Apex lite and the fusion ?
 

Damon

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Damon, I will look forward to our call.

I just get so,.....confused ! :squigglemouth:

Will the Apex control my Maxspect Razor 420 lights ? (I did not see them listed on Neptune's sight)

Will it control any powerhead brand, from Tunze, Maxspect's Gyre to even Jebao ?

I like the idea on Apex controlling everything,......and alerts.

I see that the Fusion will work on my Tablet. I also use it for controlling my
lights on a different tank. But what's the differences between the
full apex, Jr, Apex lite and the fusion ?
Lol, was this before or after our call? I had a few too many with my love tonight.. Lol..

And honestly, you just have me an idea.. Lol.. I have one of my old phones. I may at that up as a colorful display. I was thinking about using it as a webcam on the apex display (another little feature of the apex). But I may just try to create a touchscreen display.. Hmmnnn..

But the fusion honestly, I'd just an easy and pleasing to look at interface for "any" of the apex systems (I don't believe, and I could be wrong, but the old systems like the aquacontroller can use the fusion software on those apex systems). All the same hardware, just which way you are looking at, setting up and changing things.

The only thing I think you cannot control that you mentioned are the razors. But I have Reefbreeders that can't be controlled either. But I am ok with that. It probably would be nice, but I went from halides to led systems and have never been able to with the apex.

The one thing I forgot to mention, and this will help anyone. List up what you may possibly end up using. Then, check out Neptune's site and check if they can control these things. Then, make a list of modules, power bars, and probes(don't forget about the power bars, add those, imho, are just as, if not more important than some of the modules) . You will then begin to see where you may want to be as far as your system, both now and in the future. Then, take the modules, probes, etc and add/subtract them to both the Jr and the full blown system.

That way, you know the total for your specific needs and desires..

And don't discount that break out box(bob).. That thing is an inexpensive path(40.00 for this little jewel) to tons of projects, experiments and programming fun! Honestly, I think I learned the most messing around with that thing, than almost all the other apex modules I had combined.
 

truetricia

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I think,....I've finally decided to purchase a Apex system.

If I do, it will be for the 125g mixed reef that I'm setting up.
The budget is fairly low, so a well cared for system may be ok,
but I hate buying used electronics, of any type.

The new full sized units are way too expensive for me.

Please check out my build thread and either comment there or
here. I really need you Apex Guru's to explain what I need,
what to control, the Jr. or full sized and any and all advise !

I know NOTHING about the Apex's and I have trouble understanding all the hookups, what add-on apex
products I need/want, what comes with each type of controller ect.......:tongue:

My 125g build thread- (I have a list of products I have to control)

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/eq...p-setting-up-125g-mixed-reef.html#post2253356

Thanks,
Kevin
So what the apex system gives you are controls. Like Damon said, list what you want to control on your tank and that will help you to decide. Also figure out weekday kind of redundancies you want. Some people have multiple pH probes in case one fails.

Think of the basic module as the computer's basic core. You HAVE to have that. But then every thing else is add on. Every outlet let's you turn something on or off or control (in the case of compatible lights). Turning something on or off at whim let's you create complex code for an entire process (don't be intimidated by this part; you can get much of it off line). So you need to know what you want to control by a plug, which tells you how many outlets you need on your power strip. That's the basic.

Then you can start adding stuff. Want another/2nd pH probe? A SG probe? Want to plug in your ato? These are all add ons that you can build over time.

The apex is a system that makes it easy to keep basic or allow you to automate as much as you want.
 
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427HISS

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Great info guys !

Damon, is was fun and informative call last night. (Just wish I didn't have to watch a chick flic with my wife) ! lol,.....

Having my Maxspect Razors hooked up to the Apex would be great, but they do have a on board selection
of preset lighting period, and a manual control, so it's not a deal breaker.

I have both a desktop computer and a Android based Tablet to use. (no cell phones)

As you'll see, what I want to control is about everything that most reefers do as well.
Why have a Apex, but use various other equipment products (like powerheads) that do have
their own controllers, but why not just use the Apex ?

Example, I was looking into the Tunze 6096 controller and at least 2 6095 powerheads.
That controller is computer ready to control the powerheads, but why buy a $100 (+)
controller, when the Apex can do the same, unless the Tunze is better for controlling
the Tunze powerheads ?

I was ready to buy a new controllable heater, but again, why buy one since the Apex
can control it ?

I'll try to list what products I have, and will buy in the future. Sure I'll miss some but,....

Skimmer
Powerheads
ATO
Probes
PH
ORP
Reactors
Heaters
Pumps
Salinity
Feeding (cycle)
etc......

So, now onto which model ?

Although the full Gold system has more options and may end up someday wishing
I had bought it, the cost is the problem. If my wife found out how much,
she'd kick my old *** ! :moony:

I do like the idea of having the display, so if I'm not on the
computer, I can walk buy and see how everything is doing,
or if my computer is down/dead !

Buying used electronics scares me, but I won't say no.

So, should we settle on the Jr. like Damon has ?

(Damon, still on for a chat tonight) ?

If any of you reefer bro's see a great deal, please let me know ! :wink:

Kevin
 

truetricia

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Great info guys !

Damon, is was fun and informative call last night. (Just wish I didn't have to watch a chick flic with my wife) ! lol,.....

Having my Maxspect Razors hooked up to the Apex would be great, but they do have a on board selection
of preset lighting period, and a manual control, so it's not a deal breaker.

I have both a desktop computer and a Android based Tablet to use. (no cell phones)

As you'll see, what I want to control is about everything that most reefers do as well.
Why have a Apex, but use various other equipment products (like powerheads) that do have
their own controllers, but why not just use the Apex ?

Example, I was looking into the Tunze 6096 controller and at least 2 6095 powerheads.
That controller is computer ready to control the powerheads, but why buy a $100 (+)
controller, when the Apex can do the same, unless the Tunze is better for controlling
the Tunze powerheads ?

I was ready to buy a new controllable heater, but again, why buy one since the Apex
can control it ?

I'll try to list what products I have, and will buy in the future. Sure I'll miss some but,....

Skimmer
Powerheads
ATO
Probes
PH
ORP
Reactors
Heaters
Pumps
Salinity
Feeding (cycle)
etc......

So, now onto which model ?

Although the full Gold system has more options and may end up someday wishing
I had bought it, the cost is the problem. If my wife found out how much,
she'd kick my old *** ! :moony:

I do like the idea of having the display, so if I'm not on the
computer, I can walk buy and see how everything is doing,
or if my computer is down/dead !

Buying used electronics scares me, but I won't say no.

So, should we settle on the Jr. like Damon has ?

(Damon, still on for a chat tonight) ?

If any of you reefer bro's see a great deal, please let me know ! :wink:

Kevin
Kevin

I can't talk about the Tunze bc I don't have any. But here's the some thoughts.

Buy a basic unit used. This allows you to get a feel without the major investment. The controller unit is online software based, so it constantly updates and won't be out of date. The eb8 bar is the bigger deal vs the jr. The Jr gives you 4 outlets rather than 8. Based on what you've listed, you'll be using all 8 anyways. The other pieces can be easily added on later. Probes can go bad over time, so you may need to replace them anyways.

Now a thing like a controllable heater is good to a point. You'll set up your apex to turn the heater on when your temperature falls below a certain level. The heater ' s temperature needs to be set high enough to turn on when the apex tells it. You'll want it to be decent though in case your probe fails or you lose power to the controller. You can have the outlet default to on so that you're then relying on the heater ' s controls.

Even with just the controller and eb8 bar, you can do a lot. You can set up a water change code. You hit a button (turn a virtual outlet "on"), and the return pump turns off, skimmer turns off, reactors off etc so you can do a water change. You hit a button and a virtual feed outlet turns on. The return pump turns off and an automatic feeder turns on a minute later (even a battery one). 5 minutes later the return pump turns on.

Now add a temperature and pH probe. If your tank goes above a certain temperature while your lights are on, the lights turn automatically off. If you're adding supplements via a doser and your PH changes too much, your doser automatically turns off.

There's so many ways to use it. Honestly you don't need to know how to write the code. There's plenty examples available online or on here.

Feel free to contact me if you want more info.
 

Damon

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Great info guys !

Damon, is was fun and informative call last night. (Just wish I didn't have to watch a chick flic with my wife) ! lol,.....

Having my Maxspect Razors hooked up to the Apex would be great, but they do have a on board selection
of preset lighting period, and a manual control, so it's not a deal breaker.

I have both a desktop computer and a Android based Tablet to use. (no cell phones)

As you'll see, what I want to control is about everything that most reefers do as well.
Why have a Apex, but use various other equipment products (like powerheads) that do have
their own controllers, but why not just use the Apex ?

Example, I was looking into the Tunze 6096 controller and at least 2 6095 powerheads.
That controller is computer ready to control the powerheads, but why buy a $100 (+)
controller, when the Apex can do the same, unless the Tunze is better for controlling
the Tunze powerheads ?

I was ready to buy a new controllable heater, but again, why buy one since the Apex
can control it ?

I'll try to list what products I have, and will buy in the future. Sure I'll miss some but,....

Skimmer
Powerheads
ATO
Probes
PH
ORP
Reactors
Heaters
Pumps
Salinity
Feeding (cycle)
etc......

So, now onto which model ?

Although the full Gold system has more options and may end up someday wishing
I had bought it, the cost is the problem. If my wife found out how much,
she'd kick my old *** ! :moony:

I do like the idea of having the display, so if I'm not on the
computer, I can walk buy and see how everything is doing,
or if my computer is down/dead !

Buying used electronics scares me, but I won't say no.

So, should we settle on the Jr. like Damon has ?

(Damon, still on for a chat tonight) ?

If any of you reefer bro's see a great deal, please let me know ! :wink:

Kevin
It was indeed fun for me also. And hey, gotta spend time with our better halfs. Just one of those things as you know..

Lol, it's a tough call honestly(from after speaking with you) to recommend anything to anyone. I had very bad experiences recommending in the past. I simply give my experience and then, ultimately, deep down, most of us honestly know what we already want to do. Lol. We really just need a bit of confirmation in some instances. And yes, I am up for another chat! For sure!

The thing really, that, for me, made me go with the junior was knowing I don't want a ton of modules. My use of modules is very, very limited. I, while, a fairly busy person, enjoy the hands on of creating and building my own. Then, I feel like I truly understand something. I'm all for spending money, but now, I do it in balance and need(like we discussed with the vortechs).

Like yourself, I'm not too keen on used electronics. That's just me, because I've seen how people "don't" take care of things. And I'm off the mindset, that if I wanted something bad enough, I will just save. That way, I know it's exact history. But honestly, that's just me(some people call it elitist, but I think it's just being careful and controlled).

Ultimately, it pretty much boils down to modules. The only limit the junior has are the number of modules you can add "in the end". If, like me, you don't plan on adding over, or feel like inside, I like 4 or 5 modules, then the junior. But the thing that I thought about with you especially like me, you mentioned the little lady. Lol, that is a massive factor that cannot be overlooked.. I always have a plan of attack, and with women, I have found, with their logic, it's tremendously easier to buy something big, after they see the benefit. My girlfriend now (since she is the one that purchased my junior), probably, honestly wouldn't hesitate or blink at me buying things and dropping money on the tank. Lol, that's because she knows that I'm going to investigate to the extreme, and I'm only going to buy what I truly feel that I need. Add to that, she knows me, and she knows that sooner or later, I'm going to get what I want, so I might add well spend it up front.

I am saying all this to say, know your need and your inner self. Lol.. Your going to be happy with either to be honest. But, all things must be weighed in. I just have no need for a full blown one. Modules are my guide. I know, off the bat that I have over 10 things I want to control, so, immediately, I know I need another eb8( And that's either system as the regular system yes, comes with an eb8,but that's it), so immediately add another 160.00. Then, I know I wanted pH and the bob. Ok, with the junior, I have to buy a module, so that's another 120.00.. But, in the end at this point, I have 12 outlets, pH, the connection for the bob, and I'm only at 500.00. If I were to buy even the base apex, add the eb8, I'm looking at a minimum of 680.00. But each has its benefits to be fair.

In the latter(full apex), you'd have 16 outlets. And you have no module limit.

But, if I had 680.00 to spend, I would just buy another eb8, the bob and have 20 outlets avaliable(I think the price would be right in there, maybe 20.00 more) on my Jr. Lol, but again, that's me with my system and need.

And add to that, I'm not dropping almost a grand at once, so the little lady will never, ever raise an eyebrow.. ****..

It all depends on the number of modules. Lol, and for the heater, like we talked, with an apex, dude, titanium.. No thought, just punch in the numbers, and that's it. Oh, and I forgot to mention (in case you haven't read it yet) guest and others access(my girlfriend has viewing, when I had my old system, a buddy gave me modify and I set his vortechs up with my program for him).. Lol, it almost never ends with this thing.

Flip side is though, either one, you can't go wrong honestly. You really can't at all, as the systems are pretty darn solid as far as performance to be honest..
 
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427HISS

427HISS

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Truetricia, great points and I know now that I'll need an 8-bar
 
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427HISS

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Damon, yep, without my better half, I may not even be here. lol
And, she likes all my hobbies and she also enjoys OUR reefing. :angel:

I think I'll go your way, with the Jr. Buying two ab8's is fine with me. And like you said,
it'll save some cash.

Ok, now we need to find some deals. You guys know of any ?

If you all can, let's get a list of Apex products I'll need, whether it's on any forum,
ebay or brand new on any of the supply house's.

I'd appreciate your time !

Kevin

Here's one on ebay for $223 free shipping. (4 outlets though)

Neptune Systems Aquacontroller Apex Jr with Display Temp Probe | eBay

8-bar $160

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEPTUNE-SYS...956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e514a584

4-bar $120

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEPTUNE-SYS...d&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=111217517956&rt=nc


If, I can't afford, I see that Apex has a cable to hook up Jebao powerheads. $35

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JEBAO-PUMP-...REE-SHIPPING-NO-DUTIES-OR-TAXES-/191542890186
 
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Damon

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If you go with that one, you'd need the break out for float switches. If you wanted to do water sensors on the inexpensive, yes, you'd need it also. But you also have the iron of going with their And module and then doing Neptune's sensors plugged into that module.
 

Damon

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Bump.....

Question.

Even with this package, do I still need the Break Out Box, for Float Switches for sump alerts or ATO.
Push Buttons for special modes (Feed, Cleaning, etc.)
Leak Detectors, etc ?

Neptune Systems Aquacontroller Apex Aquarium Controller Lab Grade Ph Probe | eBay
For feed modes, nope, you just program the feed mode to the associated pump, as long as it's plugged into your eb8.

And I've thought about the controller for my jebao pumps, but I haven't decided fully which way I want to go..
 
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