Plumbing Advice

[gunit]

So I'm planning my 49 gallon tank build and was hoping to get advice on my plumbing plans. Basically I'll have a 49g tank with and internal overflow connected to a 20 gallon sump. My tank is coming pre-drilled with a 1" drain and 3/4" return. Going with standard bulkheads.

I've attached a sketch of what I think I'll need parts wise for the plumbing (excluding the bulkheads). Thoughts on the design?

Specifically I'm curious about the following:

1) I've heard using unions is a good idea, but besides for the part where I split the drain between the skimmer and refuge chambers I'm not sure where to put them.
2) Any concerns with me T-ing off the return to split it into two return jets?
3) Are there any other potentially useful places to install ball valves? Maybe before the split on the drain run?

Thanks!

 

[brycntif]

1) I would use unions above the your T off on the drains and above the last (bottom) 45 on the return, that way if you ever need to repair/replace/ remove the sump those pipes can be removed as well as the sump.
2) No concerns
3) ball valve on the return, helps with my concern below.
My biggest concern on this set up is going to be the noise and flushing effect, sure you can use a durso but your still going to hear this, I had a tank set up like this and it was adjusting the ball valve on the return that help with the noise/flushing effect the most, but I eventually re did the plumbing to a herbie and had the return come over the back as I also only had two holes in the tank to work with...now it is dead silent.

 

[gunit]

Thanks for the advice all that makes sense. I was planning on avoiding the herbie because I want to do it all internally and it felt wasteful of space. However having it be dead silent is a bigger priority. I don't think they've drilled the tank so maybe I'll have the add another 1" bulkhead.

How far apart are your bulkhead holes? I read 1.5x the diameter from the edge to center an 2x diameter from centers of holes. Is that too conservative/much?

 

[brycntif]

My tank was factory drilled so I'm not an expert on hole distance but Google says your thinking is correct. Be sure the holes are far enough apart that when your bulkheads are installed that they do not touch the overflow walls or the other bulkheads. I used heavy duty bulkheads and I actually had to cut some of the silicone slop in the overflow away as they were so close to the overflow walls the rubber gasket would not lay flat. With a tank your size you can do all 3/4" pipes. I have a 65 gallon with a 780 gph return pump and I still need to dial the gate valve way closed on my main drain (full siphon drain) so 3/4" is plenty big and can handle a crazy amount of flow. (I use the 1" pipe as the emergency drain). If you use 3/4" pipes your holes/bulkheads will be smaller.

 

[brycntif]

Showing my plumbing, as I only had two holes I had to run the return up an over the back but was still able to have tank right up against the wall, and I use a seaswirl on the return as well. Not shown are the two stand pipes that are in the overflow, one is cut 6" shorter that the other, shorter one is full siphon, taller one is the emergency drain and is as tall as the bottom of the "teeth" holes in the overflow. (Yes I used gate valves on everything so I can shut all drains and returns off if needed for maintenance but technically you only "need" the gate valve on the main full siphon drain)

 

[gunit]

Awesome. Thanks for all the photos. Definitely going to add another hole since I like the emergency and quiet factor.

Is that your return on the far left? Why the two different pipes at the bottom? Is that due to the Sea Swirl?

 

[brycntif]

Yes the one on left is my return, the branch on the bottom with the gate valve feeds my refugium off the return, they do not have anything to with the seaswirl. The seaswirl is the black box on top and I used a union to attach the return pipe to it. My sump set up from left to right is the two drains and skimmer section, bubble trap baffles, middle section is my return pump chamber, next chamber is my refugium which the glass divider is almost the height of the sump, that 3rd chamber (my refugium) is fed water by the branch off the return and then passively flows back to the return chamber over the higher glass divider, I control the flow to the refugium with the gate valve on that branch.

 

[brycntif]

Some people feed water to their refugium from the drain like in your sump but I find that u get detritus build up if you don't have filter socks on your drains, your sketch would then need two filter socks = more maintenance and I swear by filter socks and hate detritus. My set up feeds the refugium after the water has gone thru my filter sock and skimmer so its clean and I have thousands of happy pods n critters in my refugium so I dont buy the (you should feed your refugium dirty water thinking) as I dont want high nutrients in any section of my tank, I grow macro and pods just fine in my "clean" refugium.

 

[gunit]

Makes sense. I never thought about feeding my fuge off my return line since I was abiding by the dirty water to the refuge gospel ... Definitely feels like it makes the drain plumbing easier and I like the idea of less detritus in my fuge

 

[brycntif]

Yea the socks and skimmer won't clean the water perfectly so the water going to your refugium in my type set up is still plenty "dirty". I have seen way to many refugiums that are total detritus nitrate factory cess pools that people brag about their macro algeas fast growth rate, yea if your goal is to grow algae and have high nutrients that's one way to do it, I prefer low nutrients and slow macro algae growth because the system is clean the algae is only pulling out the little nutrients left in system not thriving from them, but I have an sps dominant tank so that's just my preference.

 

[brycntif]

Also in return fed refugium that feeds directly into my return pump chamber when I want pods in my display I just grab my macro algae shake and pods flow right over to and up the return up into the display vs. Maybe hopefully flowing through two chambers and a bubble trap to then maybe get sucked up to the display, sure u can just grab your cheato and lift it up into the display and shake it but not many people want to deal with such a dripping mess, haha

 

[VicD81]

Your skimmer should really be on the other side (where the fuge is). A lot of the pods coming out of the fuge are going to get sucked into the skimmer.

1) Anywhere you can. Makes it easier to remove if need be and should you need to replace a section for what ever reason ie. Upgrades its way easier and cheaper to replace a small section.

2) You can T off just fine.

3) you should prob put a Ball valve right after the pump to control the flow. Unless you are doing a herbie DO NOT put a ball valve on your drains.

 

[gunit]

OK here is the revised layout I'm thinking for my sump.

The right chamber is for my skimmer, the center for the return, and the left for the refugium. I think I'm debating between this skimmer (Super Reef Octopus XP1000SSS 6? Space Saver Cone Skimmer - Bulk Reef Supply) and this one (Reef Octopus Classic 110 Space Saver Protein Skimmer - Bulk Reef Supply). If I go with the later I might be able to decrease the side of the right chamber. If I do, would you add that to the refugium chamber or the return?

I'll be running an ATO for my sump so hopefully 2 gallons should be a sufficient safety net for evaporation in the case my ATO reservoir runs out, but would love to hear people's thoughts on the sump layout.

 

[VicD81]

You are going to get bubbles from the water in the fuge cascading down into the return section. You would prob need a bubble trap on each side.

 

[gunit]

Do you think I would need a double baffle like on the right or would a single do? My flow through my refugium should be pretty low so I'm hoping that a single baffle (and maybe a sponge) should suffice

 

[Gwitness]

I'm thinking of doing this on my 60 cube because it is in our bedroom and I have tried everything except this to get rid of the gurgling and air bubbles!!! I have 2 drilled holes already, so pretty much to some it up I have 2 drains, 1 main drain and then the other drain is a couple inches higher and is used as an emergency drain only.......and then I will rig up and connect pvc along the back up of my tank and that is my return....correct??

 

[VicD81]

Do you think I would need a double baffle like on the right or would a single do? My flow through my refugium should be pretty low so I'm hoping that a single baffle (and maybe a sponge) should suffice

Sorry Just noticed this. But yes you would need a bubble trap on both side unless your water level is high enough so that the water coming from the fuge does not crash into the return section.

I'm thinking of doing this on my 60 cube because it is in our bedroom and I have tried everything except this to get rid of the gurgling and air bubbles!!! I have 2 drilled holes already, so pretty much to some it up I have 2 drains, 1 main drain and then the other drain is a couple inches higher and is used as an emergency drain only.......and then I will rig up and connect pvc along the back up of my tank and that is my return....correct??

You're talking about a Herbie Overflow. One drain with a Gate Valve tuned to a full siphon and the other as an emergency (No restriction). Remember both drains have to be capable of handling full drain on their own.

 

[Gwitness]

I'm assuming it can't handle full drain since I have a dursa pipe on one drain now .....isn't that handling full drain on its own?? If not how do I find out if it can handle full drain? I know I have to get a gate valve but what do you mean by tuned for full siphon?

 

[Gwitness]

And when you say no restriction on the emergency drain that just means no gate valve or anything right? Just fully open....sorry might be stupid questions, I just want to make sure I do it right!

 

[VicD81]

You can plug each drain to see how it handles. To tune it you need to close/open it just enough so that it is "Sucking" the water out as opposed to just gravity draining. And the emergency you are correct, No valves.