DIY Rock Tutorial/Info Thread (Rocks, walls, floors, etc.)

[Electrobes]

Chapter 5

The Kure

If you thought the cure was easy, this step is no different. Patience is needed, but so is consistency.

Once your rock has finished the cure process, take'em out of the bag and put them in a body of water.

What type of water you may ask? Is it RO/DI water, or maybe saltwater? The good news is that it's neither. Tap water works the best, believe it or not, for kuring your DIY rocks. The issue, unsees of course, is that all tap water is different. In my area the freakin' pH is anywhere from 8.3 and higher! The pH will leech out, but usually if there is a time difference between one person over another.. that may be the cause.

I personally like having the water move when kuring. I simple pump works fine, and there really is no specific turnover to achieve. As long as the water moved somewhat, it should suffice.

As for temperature, I suggest keeping it at about room temp if possible. It seems to be the threshold to reach because it leeches the pH in the shortest time. Too cold shuts down the hydrolysis process (It's on going), but too hot forces even more hydroxides out. Too hot water causes "soft rocks" in which the pH is leeching out for extended time. It's not fun, and is a royal pain to fix.

This process can take anywhere from 1 day to weeks. Lots of factors play into this, but your goal is about a pH of 9.

How do you test your rock? Well the most common way is to take a sample from your batch. Rinse it out some before testing. Get a five gallon bucket, and fill it with old saltwater. Keeping only a heater (To avoid too big of a temp swing), and no pump.. place the rock carefully and leave for about 2-3 days. After that time period, briefly mix the saltwater and then do a pH test. Anything higher than 9, I don't suggest to use.

 

[Harry_Y]

Thank you

 

[Electrobes]

I still have one more section to write but in the mean time I wanna show some teaser shots of projects my company is working on perfecting, these pictures are all things that will be a part of my tank's renovation:

Well a whole lot will be changing soon in my tank. I give you Christian's 40Br's future (01/2010)!

 

[stedfast82]

you are right on all that you had to say! ive been doing concrete for 20 years. to bad the last couple of years thing's have been bad for us concrete worker's I wish you needed some help with this i'd love to make rock's alot easyer than doing floor's and curb

 

[makingbubbles]

Heres a trick i use to add some more texture. Add a few full oyster shells to the mold, to stick out the side. It just gives it different texture to keep it from looking like concrete.

 

[ktkreegs]

Nice tips everyone.

Makingbubbles...do the oyster shells come out of the mold afterwards or do you leave them in? I was thinking of compressing a shell into the concrete to give it's shell outline and shape. But I'm worried about leaving it in the mold because it will get stuck.

Anyone have tips for adding lines or aquatic shapes to the rocks?

 

[makingbubbles]

I Have the shells stuck in the concrete, so it looks like oysters stuck to the rock. I circled them in his pic, but the shells have algae on them and blend into the rock. They do give the rock a neat texture though.

 

[akabryanhall]

I was thinking about making shelves that I could stick to the sides of my tank using magnets. Would the rock be light enough to do this? Could I do this recipe for lightness?
1 Cement : 2 Perlite : 1.5 Aragonite
or
1 Cement : 4 Perlite (would this even work?)

If I put the base of the shelf on the magnet so it was imbedded with only the magnetic surface exposed and left it like that while curing, would the magnet be secure in it's enclosure, or would extra epoxy be necessary? Would the cement bond with it somehow?

 

[ktkreegs]

makingbubbles...nice rock, looks like you have made a lot of rock. As for the oyster shells, makes sense to me, I might try something similar in my next batch. Do you have a close up picture of the rock?

 

[makingbubbles]

Here you go. I need to take pics of a batch im working on. Also its 5$ a bag of crushed oyster shell here in Texas, but i just go and get buckets of oyster shells in Galveston for free. Just need to make a trip down there cause my supplies are getting low. but still have 50lbs of Portland cement.

 

[makingbubbles]

also the best way to tell if its ready for the tank, is you let it cure outside. After the ph drops to the safe zone you will start getting mosquito larva in the water. I know most of you cant do this right now. but here in Texas im still running my air conditioner every once in a while this winter.

 

[ktkreegs]

Nice Rock Makingbubbles. I assume you use a salt mixture? From the picture of the rock, the top part looks like you have some nice holes that are pretty small and actually make it look like real rock. Very nice.

I have two batches waiting for the water cure. I'm trying a new technique of letting the rocks sit in a garbage bag for a few months. I'm sure it won't mean anything until I put the rocks in water. But I have the time to waste. I'm pretty much just practicing making rocks for my new tank. Eventually, I'm going to make a complete man made rock tank. Hopefully I start this process soon.

Nice tip about the mosquito larva...however I'm in Ohio so the bucket of water will freeze. Maybe this spring, I'll give it a try.

I'll post my rocks soon.

 

[makingbubbles]

Yeah i use portland cement (90lbs bags at hardware store) Rock salt (40lbs bag at hardware store labeled water softener) Crushed or whole oyster shell (feed store in a small bag or free in Galveston Texas). all this you can normaly pick up for about 40$.

As for the salt rock. It got below freezing for 2days here in Texas. I went out to check on my rocks in a bucket of water. The water was frozen at the top 5 inches of the bucket. The bird bath was barely even frozen. Goes to show that salt helps with ice.

ktkreegs you should make the rock background for the tank. I wish i would have done that for my tank. If i ever get a larger tank, that will be the first thing i do. And i would hide all the return lines through the rock.

 

[ktkreegs]

I plan on making a rock wall butt with a little twist. I'm going to use this thread as motivation. I'll see what I can get done to get going on this. I guess the first step is to stop playing on the internet.

 

[makingbubbles]

ha ha theres always time for playing on the internet. what else are you supposed to do at work.

 

[Railrider1920]

Hey Electrobes, are you still around? Nice looking rock. Would you mind telling me what recipe you used to make the rock pictured? I'm guessing it's one of the Cement, Perlite and Aragonite ones.

Has anyone made any using one of the Cement Perlite and Aragonite recipes? I have used cement sand, crushed oyster shell and salt once and wasn't happy with how it turned out. It looked more like a cement rock with holes in it. Can anyone suggest what recipe to use to come out with rock like the ones pictured below?

Thanks

I give you Christian's 40Br's future (01/2010)!

This picture is of my earlier work before using perlite.

 

[Electrobes]

Sorry for the really late response, it's been crazy and it's going to even more crazy these next few months! I use 1 : 2 : 2 (Cement, Aragonite, Perlite). Here are some pics of some recent creations:

A texture shot:

An Aragolite-scape piece (Demo'ed at MACNA in the Aquarium Specialty booth)

NEWS: I wrote a complete revamp of the original tutorial with some added info. My only problem is posting it... I want it to be a downloadable document. I've messaged Revhtree and hope to have it figured out soon.

 

[Electrobes]

Hey all, I spoke to Revhtree and he pointed out something I missed. My bad, I didn't realize you couldn't post a document! Anyway I am going to try to format the word document to fit in post form.. we'll see how this goes.

 

[Electrobes]

Rock Tutorial (v2)

Man-made Rock Tutorial/Info

Since making rock is my business (Home), I'd like to think of myself as somewhat well-knowing of the subject. I've definitely tried many methods, ingredients, and have failed many, many times before I got to where I am today. I am constantly learning new things and am always open minded to new ideas.

Making rock takes a lot of time (Major patience), learning, skill, sometimes luck, and much more if you want it done right. Most people (My clients' customers... I am a wholesaler) would rather just buy the rock than make it themselves... and it makes sense for most people. Some people have an advantage of having certain equipment, a lot of time, and/or the background to make rock well and at a low cost... most others do not.

This written piece is a tutorial but also a basic blogging of my opinions on the subject, myths, and many other things involving man-made rock.

Here are the chapters in this piece:

1. Materials, ingredients, and tools
2. Recipes and casting material
3. Temperature requirements, mixing methods and requirements, water amounts, and hydration
4. "Curing"
5. "Kuring"
6. Results

I should also mention I will be talking strictly about man-made rock... I have no hands-on training or experience in things like foam projects.


Chapter 1
Materials, ingredients, and tools

Being prepared: Being prepared is the best thing anyone can do before undergoing a project… especially when it comes to something time-based like rock making. Before starting you have to make sure everything is ready to go, and is reachable. Once you start making rocks it sucks when your hands are goopy and you need to reach for a forgotten tool in a delicate part of the house!

Materials, ingredients, and tools:

Let's start with tools:

- Rubber gloves: I am not talking about medical gloves here, no no. We're talking about dishwashing gloves, thick but not thick enough to make you feel like a 50's robot motion-wise. This may be the best buy in the whole project… you use your hands everyday and it's a very nerve-rich part of the body. Cement will eat your hands away and the pain from those "burns" are excruciating. I used the "dipped" gloves for extra protection. I advise this especially if you ARE NOT using perlite but something gravel-like (Dolomite comes to mind)! More on this later.

- 5G Bucket: Just about every reefer's favorite friend. This is great to use for dry mixing the ingredients together before the water addition.

- Handheld Dispenser: Something to keep your ingredients measured as you prepare your dry mix. (Picture #2)

- Cement Bin: These are common and found at places like Home Depot and/or Lowes, and are pretty cheap. I promise you this is a worthwhile buy! It makes mixing a ton easier by keeping the mess inside the shallow bin, plus the rounded bottom makes it easier to scrape out ALL usable mix.

- Plastic watering can: This is a surprise to the uninitiated. Why not use a hose? Well you can, but I highly recommend using one that has a shower-type head. You want major control over the water, but it really helps if the water is spread out instead of a forceful beam. A watering can is helpful in that is gives you both the control and spread of water especially is a hose is too far from reach.

- Water: This is a "no, duh" component in the cement creation world, but people have asked about what type of water. I just want to say it, tap water is just fine to use. In fact, I recommend it.

- Casting box: Depending on how you plan on casting, the needs change. For example, a lot of people use sand as a casting material... so you would want a semi-sturdy box filled with sand, and some water nearby to form it with.

There are other methods used in casting rock, but realistically most involve far more material, time, storage, and money to actually be used unless you are like me who does it for a living. For example I cast rock on other rock, which means that I made rock to make more rock. It involves more time, money, and material to perform and store for later reuse. For the typical DIYer, they only need to make rock once.

- Suit of armor: I keed, I keed. But remember that cement can eat your skin and the process of rock making isn’t exactly dainty. Either wear an apron (Lowes/HD has them for like 3 bucks) or wear your "work clothes" that you don't care about. Last thing you need is to bleach out your favorite weekend shirt and/or pants!

- Mask and Eyewear: This is one of those that people get warned about but don't actually follow. If you want a good reason to wear this stuff, think of the cement like kalkwasser. The cement dust that flies into the air will enter your eyes and lungs.

Getting cement-lung absolutely sucks. You cough a bunch, and everything tastes like cement. Y'all probably know what eye irritation feels like… it isn't fun either. When I say think of cement like kalkwasser… it’s because both contain lime with a pH of about 12-14!

- Washing bin: This is another overlooked tool. Take any ol' bin and fill it partially with water. After you finish casting whichever piece of rock you are doing, you use the bin to get the residual mix off of your gloves. It's helpful because when you go to dry mix a new batch of mix, having wet mix already on your hands just messes things up. Also, have a towel to dry your hands off if need be.


Ingredients:

- Cement: There are many types of cement out there. I personally use good ol' portland (Type l/ll). The normal grey stuff is widely available. The white is not so easily found, but it's my choice of cement as most reefers who buy rock want it to look like the base rock that's typically sold out there in the retail market. I make what the customers tell me they want… y’all have the luxury to use just about whatever you like.

If you're making rocks for yourself and don't mind the grey, especially if you plan on having a full reef to cover up the grey (Corals, corraline, etc.), I would definitely use it as it's cheaper... waaaaay cheaper.

(Aggregates): An aggregate is something you mix into cement to create concrete/mortar. It ranges to many, many things like sand, pebbles, etc. The role of the aggregate is to give a surface for the cement to bind to. The cement is just the glue, and you’ve got have something to glue together!

- Sand: This aggregate is pretty crucial in the making of rocks. This isn't to say you can't make rock without it, I just wouldn't suggest it. Sand is easy to get and isn't very expensive (Depends on which you use). It's a great "fine" aggregate that goes along well with "coarse" aggregate. Because of its size it provides a lot of surface for the cement to bind to.


- Aragonite Sand: This is the most expensive of the sands and it is also the most favored by reefers. It comes in many names like calcium sand, bone sand, etc but is not widely used outside of this hobby. I use this but as a business I can get it at a decent price because I buy it in bulk (Many tons!). Obviously this is not possible for most hobbyists, and they are given the choice between buying retail aragonite or choosing another type of sand (Quartz) at a much cheaper price.

(Picture #2)

- Quartz Sand: If anything in the DIY rock world gets a lot of attention it's the debate about using quartz sand. It is one of the most misunderstood things out there because of its relation to silica (This sand is also called Silica sand). You can judge for yourself, but in my honest opinion I see no problems using this sand. If you want some proof look no further than one of reefing’s authority on reef chemistry: Randy Holmes-Farley. Craig Bingman also wrote on this subject as well. Do a search for Silica Sand and the author in Google and you’ll spot the articles regarding this topic.

The real issue with quartz sand is not the silicates it supposedly releases into the water (Again please read the articles regarding this), it's the "other" stuff that comprises of the sand. You see, most quartz sand bags will typically be about 98% pure quartz, while the other 2% is unknown. A good way of thinking about this is the fact that quartz is white in nature, the bags you get from HD/Lowes is more brownish. The brownish tint is caused by that “other†2%. So should you choose to use quartz sand, try to find the whitest bag possible and give it a washout, to try and rid of that 2% (Most cases it mostly comprised of dust). You may not get the minor benefits of buffering or calcium additions that you would from Aragonite sand, but you also won’t suffer any ill effects as purported by the myths.


- Crushed Coral: This is another aragonite type situation. It is fantastic to use but is expensive. It helps with making the rock look more natural, but there are other cheaper ways of doing so. Still if you happen to have a bunch or can get it cheap, it's a great aggregate to use.

 

[Electrobes]

- Crushed Oyster Shell: This product does receive a lot of attention because of the debate that runs about it on whether it leeches out phosphates or not. From my readings (brief, as I don't personally use it) it seems this is true (In my opinion). For some people it works just fine and has no problems associated with it, but others will swear up and down it is the cause for their high phosphates.

Unfortunately this is something you, as the rock maker, will have to decide for yourself. This decision is harder still for those that live in rural areas... you can find this stuff pretty cheaply at feed stores.

On top of the worry about what natural oyster shells contain, who knows what materials it encounters during processing. Again, this should be looked into if you are considering its use.

- Perlite: Ah now we've hit upon a favorite of mine. I love using this stuff because it is REALLY lightweight, and is pretty inert. What is it? It's basically puffed glass. The problem with perlite is that it's not exactly cheap. Like aragonite, it's an expensive aggregate. Aside from it being light-weight and inert, it's also easy on the gloves and hands when creating the wet mix.

Its only con that comes to mind is the fact that it’s brittle. You can crush it between your fingers if you try. Honestly, if used in conjunction with sand, you should have enough hardness in the rock to make up for the brittle aggregate. Find the right recipe, and you’ll see what I mean.

Perlite

- Salt: Yet another foundation for debate in the man-made rocks world. In my personal opinion I DO NOT recommend using this aggregate. You can get the neat texture created by salt using other methods (Like perlite). While salt may have worked (or currently does so now) for others, for most it will cause your rock to fail prematurely. In short, salt retards the "curing" process of the rocks. By the time your rock is done "curing" it's more brittle than rock without salt and eventually will break apart. Again, there are people who will tell you they've had plenty success with this, but from my experience, and from other professionals', salt is just better left out, especially since so many other options are readily available.


Other stuff:

There are many other things out there that people have tried. I have seen things like ice, noodles, plastics, etc. I have not mentioned them here because I am sticking to what I use as it works well for me. A lot of the “other†things out there have many issues associated with it and I’d rather not introduce non-helpful things into this literature.