So My Hippo has Ich...Who Cares!

[ReefMadScientist]

Hello everyone,

I would first like to introduce myself as not a expert reefer but not exactly a rookie either. I guess we can say I am a novice. I have had my tank going for a couple of years now and have witness and experienced the menace parasite that is Ich. I want to share some of my experiences with you to help you through your process..maybe

So the first time my Hippo Tang got Ich, I was running around the house like a mad man thinking the fish just swam through a radiation zone and that I needed to perform some sort of CPR quickly. I've read the horror stories, the disastrous tank wipe outs, and I was a scared little boy about to kiss a girl.

So that initial time I took my hippo in a sandwich bad and drove him to my LFS and he verified it was Ich...due to the white bumps it left. I quickly spent $200 bucks on a 40g breeder, heater, Overflow, you name it trying to defeat this parasite. I removed ALL my fish (3 hours later) and was able to nab them into the new breeder and started to slowly dose Copper Power.

Long store short, 10 weeks later I placed them all back in the DT feeling happy I did not lose one-single fish. A few months later....YOU GUESSED IT....it was back on the Hippo.

That was over a year ago and this morning I woke up to my hippo, yet again, having Ich and it made me think that I should comment on here on my methods now....I say WHO CARES!

My mentality and actions are to keep all fish Happy, Healthy, and Fat. I got some Garlic Extract SeaWeed and put more drops of Garlic Power on it. Fed the fish and walked away.

I believe sometimes we can get carried away with freaking out and making matters worse. I know as long as I keep my fish happy, healthy, and fat, they will be able to defeat the parasite.

*Note - My Hippo has had Ich maybe six times thus far since that initial terror.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[scruggyj]

I guess the real question is between the 10 weeks fallow and the months later when the ich reappeared did you add anything that could have brough the ich back in the tank?

New fish/coral/wet rock..etc that was not put through QT or treatment?

 

[ReefMadScientist]

I guess the real question is between the 10 weeks fallow and the months later when the ich reappeared did you add anything that could have brough the ich back in the tank?

New fish/coral/wet rock..etc that was not put through QT or treatment?

Nope...absolutely nothing! I grew so much pods during that time with nothing eating them. I have came to the conclusion that mostly ALL hippo's have this parasite within them and when they stress out...out comes the badness.

I QT all my fish when I got them for months but still have outbreaks from time to time. I am a strong believer in hippos just having it within.

 

[scruggyj]

I will be getting a hippo soon and other tangs (this is the reason I upgraded to a 180) and I will QT and treat with cuprimine..etc

I really don't want to deal with it so I will QT and treat everything that enters this tank!

I am really hoping to not have to deal with it....ever!

I have a yellow tang in QT now that had a few spots and it is currently in a cuprimine treatment and is doing very well!

 

[ReefMadScientist]

I will be getting a hippo soon and other tangs (this is the reason I upgraded to a 180) and I will QT and treat with cuprimine..etc

I really don't want to deal with it so I will QT and treat everything that enters this tank!

I am really hoping to not have to deal with it....ever!

I have a yellow tang in QT now that had a few spots and it is currently in a cuprimine treatment and is doing very well!

Best of luck man

Just remember if your tang(s) ever do get it...do not panic. As long as your fish are happy and fat they will make it through. I guess that is why mostly everyone associated Ich with tangs...specifically the hippo and powder blue.

 

[scruggyj]

Thanks - I am going to do everything in my power to keep it out of my tank.

I am using my old 65 gallon as my DT so I have plenty of room for QT.

I also have live rock rubble and some chunks of live rock that I will never add back to the display.

My QT tank is cycled and I don't have issues with water chemistry. Cuprimine and paraguard (don't use them together!) do not have a big impact on the bio filter so I have not had issue there. To me the hardest part of a regular barebottom QT with just PVC is keeping the ammonia down.

So, I am willing to sacrafice some liverock to the cuprimine if it is going to make my QT easier. Although, it take a bit more cuprimine to get the level to .5.
I have found that once the rock absorbs the cuprimine I have not had any issue keeping at .5.

I plan to keep this 65 QT up and running pretty much this whole year as I stock the 180.

 

[reeffirstaid]

I agree with you ReefMadScientist. Over reactions to parasitic infections and others, often lead to a soup of medications intended to treat them. The treatment can do more harm than the actual disease. Often a good diet, good water quality and patience is all that is needed, especially with ich.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

I agree with you ReefMadScientist. Over reactions to parasitic infections and others, often lead to a soup of medications intended to treat them. The treatment can do more harm than the actual disease. Often a good diet, good water quality and patience is all that is needed, especially with ich.

Thanks for commenting! Definitely means a lot coming from you . Glad my thoughts are somewhat backed up now.

 

[NanaReefer]

Well you've helped by proving that the only sure way of ridding your tank of the ICH parasite is to allow your tank to fallow for at least 8 weeks. You've proven that if this is not done you will be subjecting your fish, and any other new fish, to the parasite. You've help by showing what not to do. It is good not to panic though. But why QT the fish if your going to be putting it right back into the fire? Not sure if you've researched it but...the long term use of garlic is proving to cause more harm then good.

 

[Bad Company]

Well you've helped by proving that the only sure way of ridding your tank of the ICH parasite is to allow your tank to fallow for at least 8 weeks. You've proven that if this is not done you will be subjecting your fish, and any other new fish, to the parasite. You've help by showing what not to do. It is good not to panic though. But why QT the fish if your going to be putting it right back into the fire? Not sure if you've researched it but...the long term use of garlic is proving to cause more harm then good.

The OP stated that all their fish wree in a QT for 10 weeks. What isn't clear is if ich could have been re-introduced through some other means. There is good researc out there that ich does not survive indefinitely, and that fish can develop some resistance. See here (RESEARCH ON ICH AND CURES):

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Marine "Ich"

"[h=5]Is "Ich" always present in our aquaria?[/h]There is a widely held belief in the marine aquarium hobby that "Ich" is always present in our aquaria and this belief is often repeated on marine bulletin boards. There is much information in the scientific literature that contradicts this belief.
C. irritans is an obligate parasite (Burgess and Matthews, 1994; Dickerson and Dawe, 1995; Yoshinaga and Dickerson, 1994). Obligate means the parasite can not survive without infecting its host, in this case, fish. Theronts have been shown to die if a suitable host is not found within the required time. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) found that few theronts (0.34%) were viable 12.5 hours after excystment and Burgess and Matthews (1994) found that no theronts were viable 18 hours after excystment. Colorni (1985) found that some excysted tomites (=theronts) were observed to be moving weekly after 48 hours. While the life span of the theronts appears variable, it is limited and all will die without finding a suitable host.
If an aquarium has no fish in it, and there are no additions of fish, or anything else that could be carrying trophonts, tomonts, tomites or theronts for a period of 6 weeks or longer, all parasites will have died. An aquarium such as this is an obvious exception to "Ich" always being present.
Many fish collected for marine aquariums will not be carrying "Ich". Incidence of C. irritans in wild fish varies widely and may be geographically related. Some authors have found few infected fish, if any, in the areas they have examined (Puerto Rico: Bunkley-Williams and Williams, 1994; southern California: Wilkie and Gordin, 1969) . Others have found that low levels of infection are not uncommon (e.g. southern Queensland; Diggles and Lester, 1996c). Keeping multiple fish in holding tanks and at aquarium stores increases the chances of a fish carrying "Ich" parasites, but it is still possible to acquire a fish that is not infected with "Ich".
If new fish are quarantined for at least 6 weeks, any parasites on the fish will have gone through a number of life cycles increasing the number of parasites present. In the majority of cases, the increase in parasite numbers will result in full blown infection and fish can be treated to remove the parasites. Hyposalinity has been demonstrated to break the life cycle of "Ich" (Cheung et al. 1979; Colorni, 1985) and fish correctly treated with hyposalinity will be free from "Ich". Any fish that do not show signs of infection after 6 weeks are very unlikely to be carrying any parasites.
If fish that are free from "Ich" (either because they were not originally infected or because they have been treated with hyposalinity) are added to an aquarium that is free from "Ich", the aquarium will stay free from "Ich" and be another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Whilst "Ich" may be present in some aquaria, it is certainly not present in all aquaria. Through careful quarantining and treatment, it is very much possible to establish and maintain an "Ich" free aquarium.



[h=5]Does stress cause "Ich"?[/h]Stress and poor water conditions do not cause marine "Ich", although they will lower a fish's resistance to infection and impair their immune system. If C. irritans is not present in a tank, it doesn't matter what how stressed a fish may be, it cannot get infected. In a tank where parasites are present, stressed fish are more likely to show signs of "Ich" before more healthy fish, but the healthy fish are just as likely to become infected as the numbers of parasites increase. Those fish species that are less susceptible to "Ich" or those individuals that have an acquired immunity, may show no signs and may not get infected.

[h=5]Can "Ich" be introduced with natural seawater?[/h]One common argument against the use of natural seawater is the possibility of the introduction of parasites. While it is theoretically possible to introduce C. irritans, it is practically very unlikely owing to the nature of the life cycle of the parasite.
As discussed above, C. irritans spends very little time in the water column. After dropping off the host fish, trophonts head straight to the substrate to reproduce. This may take as little as 30 minutes but could extend to 24 hours (Cheung et al., 1979). Burgess and Matthews (1994b) found that significantly more trophonts left their host during darkness while fish are resting. This would greatly decrease the chances of trophonts being swept away from the substrate. These two factors combined almost rule out the possibility of trophonts being collected with natural seawater.
Excystment of theronts from tomonts also happens at night (Burgess and Matthews (1994b) and as theronts are only viable for a few hours, the chances of collecting theronts is low and those collected will most likely die before use in an aquarium."

 

[NanaReefer]

Oops my apology. I missed reading that he did QT all fish for 10 weeks.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Oops my apology. I missed reading that he did QT all fish for 10 weeks.

Thx Bad Company, no problem NanaReefer

Ich is a very strange parasite when it comes to its origin. But for the mean time, I am a true believe that all hippos will typically have it. Yes, it could of lived past the 10 weeks during the DT being just a plain jane reef tank...but i dunno.

I also have a mini UV sterilizer for the water-born parasites attached to the back of my main tank.

 

[nola90]

I am going to agree with you on the blue hippo on "WHO CARES?!"

I've never had ich before and never QT my fish beforehand (lucky for me). I know what ich looks like, very obvious when you see a LFS infested with it on their tangs.

I had a yellow tang, blue hippo tang, 2 clowns, 2 wrasse, and a firefish. One day, I noticed white spots all over the blue hippo, but it was swimming like normal, eating like normal, and acting normal. Aesthetically, it was ich, but it wasn't doing a thing. I was worried and wanted to QT him, but the closest LFS that has copper running was an hour away and I can't set up a QT in the house. Left it there, 3 days later, it goes away. I've never seen ich since and its been over a year and a half.

I didn't change any diet (NLS pellets and seaweed), nor did i add any garlic extract or anything to the food when the BHT had ich. Weird.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Thx Bad Company, no problem NanaReefer

Ich is a very strange parasite when it comes to its origin. But for the mean time, I am a true believe that all hippos will typically have it. Yes, it could of lived past the 10 weeks during the DT being just a plain jane reef tank...but i dunno.

I also have a mini UV sterilizer for the water-born parasites attached to the back of my main tank.

Im with ya too!! My dummy Hippo usually gets it back when I move something around in the tank. Never bothers anyone else, just the Hippo, and a few weeks later its gone.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Im with ya too!! My dummy Hippo usually gets it back when I move something around in the tank. Never bothers anyone else, just the Hippo, and a few weeks later its gone.

Yep which brings up another good point. I try to keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible because that is typically when the hippo gets a pale-ish color on its head. That is when I know it is stressing out.

Few hours later, he is back to being happy.

 

[Bad Company]

Is it possible that it isn't ich, but rather particles adhereing to the hippo? You mentioned that the white spots appear after moving stuff around, it might just be stired up particles stuck to the slime coat and not actually ich. I see that occasionally on my blenny.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Is it possible that it isn't ich, but rather particles adhereing to the hippo? You mentioned that the white spots appear after moving stuff around, it might just be stired up particles stuck to the slime coat and not actually ich. I see that occasionally on my blenny.

Sometimes it is sand granules from the my Oolight sand bed but other times it is definitely Ich. Looks like constellations on my hippo and fins. But with time they go away.

 

[kpiotrowski]

I think it time the sceintific communtity did a recent study! Consider that sceintists are basically broke...untill they receive their grants. consider the $$$$ involved in just fish sales and as long as the fish are dying on our tanks we will buy more. consider the $$$$ involved in sales of treament remedies for ich, and then tell me what sceintist wants to bite off the hand that feeds them and who will give they the grants?

Imagine if a new study concludes: There is no 100% effective cure for ich. There goes millions of dollars in sales on remedies and treatement which includes qt and hospital tanks and all the $$$$ it takes to set them up.

That being said there are only 2 "proven" methods of treatment, copper and hypo...thus far, but add quinine sulfate as good 3rd.

But there sure are alot of testimonials to basically keep your fish healthy as a cure also.

 

[Bad Company]

I think it time the sceintific communtity did a recent study! Consider that sceintists are basically broke...untill they receive their grants. consider the $$$$ involved in just fish sales and as long as the fish are dying on our tanks we will buy more. consider the $$$$ involved in sales of treament remedies for ich, and then tell me what sceintist wants to bite off the hand that feeds them and who will give they the grants?

Imagine if a new study concludes: There is no 100% effective cure for ich. There goes millions of dollars in sales on remedies and treatement which includes qt and hospital tanks and all the $$$$ it takes to set them up.

That being said there are only 2 "proven" methods of treatment, copper and hypo...thus far, but add quinine sulfate as good 3rd.

But there sure are alot of testimonials to basically keep your fish healthy as a cure also.

Don't forget the tank transfer method!

 

[breck]

Glad I saw this.
I recently moved my fish into a 125 rr, from a 75.
The hippo and niger trigger made the move first and everything was great. Then I moved the remaining inhabitants (blonde naso, bicolor,engineer gobie). After a week of everyone being together again, I noticed the hippo had an ich outbreak. This is the first time I have seen the hippo have ich since I've had him (1 yr). Then it spread to the bicolor and naso and trigger. Everyone is still eating just as before. Except the bicolor. I ended up losing him 2 days ago. I wasn't sure if it was the stress of the move or what that caused the outbreak. But I used dr tims 1st defense to help, I didn't want to stress them out more with catching them and putting them back in the 75. The hippo is looking much better as are all the others. But it gets frustrating for sure.

How is your hippo doing now?