Ich Discussion and treatment options.

[returnofsid]

I figured I'd start a discussion on Ich, in Marine fish. The reason I'm doing this is because there's a lot of myths and mis-information, regarding Ich, in Marine Fish, as apposed to Ich in Freshwater fish. I figured some of these myths needed to be "brought to light." Lately, on a couple of Reef Forums, a lot of new hobbyists have been struggling with Ich. It seems I've been reading 2 or 3 new threads every day. Unfortunately, some members are giving out bad information, which will only make matters worse. So I decided to start this thread, hoping it'll lead someone in the proper direction!!

To start with, Ich is a parasite that can infect Marine and Freshwater fish, HOWEVER, it's two totally different parasites. Some treatments for Freshwater Ich won't kill Saltwater Ich.

Marine Ich=Cryptocaryon irritans
Freshwater Ich=Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

It's important to properly identify Marine Ich, before treatment begins. Just as in Freshwater fish, Ich will present itself in a way that looks like someone sprinkled salt on your fish. It will come and go, with the Trophont, ProTomont and Tomont stages of the life cycle. Trophont is when the parasite is actually attached to the fish and usually lasts 3-7 days. After this, the parasite falls from the fish and lives in the substrate (ProTomont stage) for a period of hours. Then, during the Tomont stage, the parsite encysts, dividing into hundreds of "daughter" parasites, called Tomites. Tomites are non-infectious and this stage can last from 3-28 days. After this Tomite period, the eggs hatch, becoming Tomonts and go in search of a Fish Host.

Another interesting thing about Marine Ich, is that it seems to drop off Host Fish, AND search out Host Fish at "night." This creates a problem for the fish. Most Marine fish chose the same spot to "sleep," every night. Because of this, the Ich parasite falls off of the fish, goes through it's reproduction cycle, and easily finds the same Host Fish, when it's ready.

Here are some "treatments," that don't work.

Increasing temperature.

While increasing temperature is a common, and somewhat effective way to treat Freshwater Ich, it does absolutely nothing to help with Marine Ich. There's some studies to show that it "might" speed up the life cycle of the parasite, but even these studies are controversial. Marine Ich also has a higher "optimal temperature," so raising the temperature could actually benefit the parsite. Raising water temperature also has the negative effect of lowering the oxygen content of the water.

Garlic

While garlic has been shown to have immunity boosting properties, among Freshwater Fish, it has been shown to NOT have the same ability among Marine Fish. Studies have shown that garlic "may" inhibit the parasites ability to find fish, by smell, in Marine fish, so "might" result in a reduced ability to parasitize. Garlic is also thought to "possibly" increase a Marine Fish's appetite, keeping the fish healthy and able to "fight off" Ich, but even that is only anecdotal and hasn't been reproduced, scientifically, in many studies. Garlic HAS been shown to cause liver damage, among Marine Fish.

UV Sterilization

The use of a UV Sterilizer will reduce the number of Ich parasites, but not significantly. The problem with UV is it will only kill stuff that passes over the light, and ONLY if the UV light is strong enough and the life form passes over the light slow enough for the UV Strength to kill it. The Ich parasite is only in the water column for a short time, while dropping off of a Host Fish, or in search of a Host Fish. It can only pass through the UV sterilizer during the period of time that it's in the water column. Unfortunately, UV will only kill a small portion of the Ich parasites, IF the UV sterilizer is powerful enough (wattage) and the flow rate is slow enough.

Marine Ich is present in all Marine Fish and is in all Marine Tanks and is a result of a fish being stressed

A huge myth!!! Research has shown that, with proper QT procedures and treatment, Ich can be eradicated from a Marine Aquarium. Without a Fish Host, Marine Ich will die. However, the life cycle of Ich has to be taken into account, so the Ich parasite needs to be void of a Fish Host for a period of 6-8 weeks.

Now I'll outline some SUCCESSFUL treatments for Marine Ich.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity treatment is probably the most successful and least stressful treatment, if done properly. Unfortunately, this can't be done in a reef tank. However, it can be done in a Marine Fish Only tank, with a caveat or two.

Hyposalinity is treatment by lowering the salinity of saltwater, to a level that it will kill the parasite, but NOT kill the fish. In fact, lowering salinity eases a fishes ability to "respire," and increases oxygens ability to mix with the water.

Changes in salinity do need to be done correctly, as to not stress the fish. Lowering the salinity can be done quicker than raising the salinity. Typically the salinity can be dropped from 1.025 to 1.009 in a matter of a couple of days, without negatively effecting the fish. However, once treatment is over, the salinity should be raised back up to 1.025 slower (over the period of a week.) Treatment needs to be done for a period of 6-8 weeks, OR at least 2 weeks after all visible signs of Ich are gone. At that point, salinity can be slowly raised, over a 1 week period. During this same time, the display tank must remain "fallow," or fishless. Without any Fish Hosts, the Ich parasite will die.

1.009 has been shown to be the level where Ich can no longer survive, without negatively effecting the fish. Again, this cannot be done in a reef tank, as motile and inmotile inverts will die. In a Fish Only system, this can be done, however, beneficial bacteria, micro fauna, micro flora, amphipods, copepods, etc. will perish. Those things will re-populate, over time.

Hyposalinity is best done in an established QT tank.

Copper

Copper treatment CANNOT be done in a reef tank and shouldn't be done in a FO (Fish Only) Tank. The copper will leach into the live rock, sand substrate, etc. Later, the copper will leach back out of these materials, poisoning the tank. Copper is very fatal to any Marine Inverts.

Copper treatment needs to be done very carefully and with a very accurate Copper Test Kit. At too low of dosage, it won't kill Ich. At too high of dosage, it kills fish. It's very important to follow the manufacturer directions AND have an accurate test kit.

Transfer Method

This method is effective, but a lot of work...lol.

It involves having 2 available tanks. Each day, the fish are moved from one tank, to another. In between, each tank is emptied, cleaned and refilled with Saltwater. The idea is that the Ich parasite will be left behind, in the used water. This process should be done for a period of 10 days. This treatment is also quite stressful to the fish, with being moved every day. Also, the display still needs to remain fallow for 6-8 weeks.

Here's some further reading, for those interested.
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini4.htm
Garlic: What has been Studied Versus What has been Claimed by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

[skinz78]

Great thread! My fish are showing signs of Ich and I can't do any of the above methods for one reason or another. I wish there was a reef safe easy treatment for this stuff...

[returnofsid]

Unfortunately, we fall into this situation, a lot of times. Before researching Ich, I actually tried some of the "reef safe" treatments. None of them worked, in the slightest. After researching it, in depth, I found that the supposed "reef safe" remedies are a joke. If it's strong enough to kill Ich, it'll always kill other inverts in our tanks. To be "reef safe" enough to NOT kill inverts, it also won't kill Ich!

I've been fortunate not to have to deal with Ich for a few years. Well, that's not quite true. I did lose a beautiful Atlantic Blue Tang, to Ich, about a year ago. Then again, I haven't added any fish, except a pair of Bengaii that I know were properly QTd, prior to purchase, for over a year.

To be honest, I don't QT all of my fish, though I do try to purchase from reputable sources and I try to spend some time inspecting the fish for a few days, prior to purchase. If Ich were to break out, in my 200, I'd be in a world of hurt! I do have a 100 gallon stock tank, that I could use, for QT purposes. However, I'd have to completely tear the 200 down, in order to catch all the fish!

[VegasRick]

Here are some of my notes on Ich

treatment, involving no medication. It seems that you can interrupt the life cycle by moving the fish every 4 days to a new tank. Described at http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf
Aspects of the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans,
and hyposalinity as a control measure in cultured
gilt-head sea bream Sparus aurata
A similar method was also described in Fish diseases and disorders
by P. T. K. Woo, John F. Leatherland for wild fish by keeping the fish in cages 3 meters above the ocean floor that way the tomonts fell to the floor and the free swimming stage , theronts could not reach the fish
More reading
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/mini1.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/mini3.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/mini4.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/mini5.htm

More from Fish Disease and Disorders by P. T. K. Woo, John F. Leatherland
Fish exposed to repeated infections appeared to develop an immunity. As one might expect from a large extracellular parasite antibodies are important effectors of protective immunity (Cross 1993, Mathews 1994, Dickerson and Clark 1998) An early Hypotesis was that antibodies immobilized theronts in the mucas layer of the skin. (Hines and Spira 1974) Immobilization in vivo may be an indirect rather than a direct action of the antibodies on theront cilia. Clark et all (1987) showed that the immobilized theronts were surrounded by a mucas like material and suggested that antibody binding caused discharge of parasite mucocysts. The clumping of theronts was the result of their being trapped in this released substance.

[VegasRick]

took me awhile to find this, I have more notes but can't find them

A more recent study demonstrated that two life stages of one strain of Cryptocaryon (trophonts, i.e. the feeding stage during which the parasite can be found on the fish, and tomonts) survived dormant for 4–5 months at 12°C (53.6°F), and, after the water temperature increased to 27°C (80.6°F), developed and infected fish (Dan et al. 2009).

[skinz78]

Stuck!

[ToXIc]

wow.. this is not encouraging..

well 1st i found this by accident because the forum doesn't allow search terms less than 3 characters.. so when i went to the fish forum to make a post i saw this as a sticky..

back to the ich.. is there nothing we can do other than the options mentioned above.. my hippo tang doesnt look good

[returnofsid]

wow.. this is not encouraging..

well 1st i found this by accident because the forum doesn't allow search terms less than 3 characters.. so when i went to the fish forum to make a post i saw this as a sticky..

back to the ich.. is there nothing we can do other than the options mentioned above.. my hippo tang doesnt look good

Toxic, unfortunately, no. None of the supposed "reef safe" treatments work. Removing ALL of the fish, from the display tank, and treating them all in QT, for the proper length of time, is the only way to insure complete removal of the Ich parasite, from your display tank.

Now, this doesn't mean you have to have a QT Aquarium. People have used rubbermaid storage totes, stock tanks, etc. and they work out just great!

[Rhodes19]

Is it safe to assume that if you don't see ich on your DT fish for 8+ weeks that your tank and fish are free of ich? I just got a 125 FOWLR on short notice and want to make sure it is ich free before I start adding fish. I've always QTed my fish before putting them in my 180 but I've never had a mature system to start with. Thanks.

[returnofsid]

Rhodes19 While it may be "safe to assume," I don't think it's a guarantee. It's possible that Ich is present, in your display tank, but they haven't made their presence known, due to health of the fish. If this fish were subject to a stresser, it's possible that the Ich could present itself. One of the ideas, behind QTing new fish, is that the QT environment is stressful, so usually subjects the fish to stress, which would bring out the Ich. I'm not saying that Ich is brought on by stress, because I don't believe it is. However, I do believe that stress can weaken a fish immune system, allowing Ich to attack the fish, more easily.

I hope this makes sense...lol

[nixer]

i dunno about your garlic post. the last handfull of articles ive read from more than one source have seen that it does affect the immune system.
this is also not been studied either

[Rhodes19]

Rhodes19 While it may be "safe to assume," I don't think it's a guarantee. It's possible that Ich is present, in your display tank, but they haven't made their presence known, due to health of the fish. If this fish were subject to a stresser, it's possible that the Ich could present itself. One of the ideas, behind QTing new fish, is that the QT environment is stressful, so usually subjects the fish to stress, which would bring out the Ich. I'm not saying that Ich is brought on by stress, because I don't believe it is. However, I do believe that stress can weaken a fish immune system, allowing Ich to attack the fish, more easily.

I hope this makes sense...lol

Hi returnofsid,

Thanks. So essentially, ich can be present even in QT and may not show itself even under stress. (my qt isn't very stressful ) I guess the only course of action would be to QT all the fish and treat with cupramine for 2 weeks and let the tank lay fallow for 8 weeks. I was hoping to avoid having to do that but I guess its the only sure way of knowing. Oh well, that does give ma an excuse to set up another tank. LOL!!

[Rhodes19]

i dunno about your garlic post. the last handfull of articles ive read from more than one source have seen that it does affect the immune system.
this is also not been studied either

I don't know about garlic boosting fish immune system but in humans it does help but there is a catch. The chemical in the garlic (I'll have to find the name again) that is responsible for boosting the immune system is only good for a short time (about an hour IIRC) before it becomes oxidized and rendered ineffective after the cell walls have been breached. So, any garlic supplement we take is really useless (chalk that up to marketing and advertising). I'll have to see if I can find that study again. Its been about 10 years since I last saw it. If I can find it again, I'll post a link to it. Just my 0.02.

[Murfman]

Great thread. This is my reference site for treating it. Now I can add your links too!

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Marine "Ich"

[VegasRick]

Hi returnofsid,

Thanks. So essentially, ich can be present even in QT and may not show itself even under stress. (my qt isn't very stressful ) I guess the only course of action would be to QT all the fish and treat with cupramine for 2 weeks and let the tank lay fallow for 8 weeks. I was hoping to avoid having to do that but I guess its the only sure way of knowing. Oh well, that does give ma an excuse to set up another tank. LOL!!

Unfortunately cupramine and copper treatments only work in one stage of the life cycle. There is nothing I have heard of that will kill it when it is on the fish surrounded by the mucus coating that the fish's own immune system uses to fight them. It may however stress the fish enough to cause an outbreak.

In my own experience, the 2 or 3 times I have had it in the last 20+ years, I have never had ich last more than 2 weeks, with no treatment. The key is good water quality, stable parameters and compatible tank mates.

[Rhodes19]

Great thread. This is my reference site for treating it. Now I can add your links too!

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Marine "Ich"

Nice reference site.

[gimmito]

Bob Goeman suggests in his book "The Marine Fish Health & Feeding Handbook" that the use of Chloroquine Phosphate or Aralen is an effective treatment for Cryptocarayan, Brooklynella, Uronema, & Amyloodinium. Has anybody tried this medication ?

[ryanuy]

I have an achilles tang now in my QT and its been in hypo for about 2 weeks. The salinity is stable at 1.008-1.009 depending on the evaporation and all but i always refill with RO water everyday. Weird thing is that this morning, i saw 1 spot near the eye of my fish. Im not sure if its an ich spot but its only 1 and it hasnt multiplied or anything throughout the course of the day. I dont understand how that could happen if its ich though because the fish is in hypo and i have 2 refractometers and i check the salinity constantly. Any ideas?

[returnofsid]

Ryanuy, if it is Ich, it could be because 2 weeks of hypo isn't long enough, yet, to fully kill all of the parasites. Keep it going and keep observing!

[ryanuy]

Yep thats the plan. I know tangs are of course more susceptible to ich and its been a few days and the one dot is still there so im taking that as a good sign that the ich isnt spreading or anything. My plan was to QT him in hypo for at least another 3 weeks. Hopefully that clears everything up. Although i have been reading up and is it true that hypo isnt 100% effective in getting rid of ich?