Powder Blue needs your help!

Keepswiming · Jan 24, 2015

I recently purchased this powder blue with ich from a lfs on here but i did it intentionally to save him. I acclimated him into my qt and started cupramine SLOWLY. He is in my 48" long qt at .25 cupramine and eating flake,pellets, mysis (soaked in selcon), but he has something on his face/side that i am unfamiliar with... I have dealt with ich before, but this doesn't look like ich to me, although i could be completely wrong! Any information on what to do to increase his health is much appreciated! BTW all parameters are stable and in check!

SLIGHT BLACK DISCOLORATION ON DORSAL FIN!

WHITE FLATWORM LOOKING PARASITES ON FACE!

SIDE DISCOLORED (POSSIBLY FROM SCRAPING ON ROCKS)!

THE TANG DOES SHOW SOME FLASHING AND MILD DARTING BACK AND FORTH (POSSIBLY FROM REFLECTION OF HIMSELF)... NO LABORED BREATHING AND HE IS STILL EATING.

:thumb: THANKS!

Humblefish · Jan 24, 2015

The discoloration on the back of the dorsal fin is likely a bacterial infection setting in (possibly fin rot). It is not uncommon for a fish with a preexisting parasitic infestation to develop a "secondary" bacterial infection. The good news is you can safely mix most antibiotics (ex. Kanaplex, Furan-2, Maracyn 1 & 2) with copper. But do increase gas exchange in the QT when you do this, to compensate for oxygen depletion.

However, I'm sorry to say that the white looking worms on the face are really bad news. :sad: While I have yet to encounter them personally, I have seen many threads with the same condition and treatment is usually not successful. One theory is that what you are seeing is possibly a bad reaction to copper; as most fish that develop it seem to be in copper at the time. One success story I remember involved two Pyramid Butterflies with this condition. One died, but one healed & survived. If I'm remembering correctly, the poster used the "hedgedrew combo" on both fish - which is Furan-2, Kanaplex and metronidazole (ex. Seachem Metro) all at the same time. Repeated attempts to treat fish with this condition using Prazipro & formalin have failed - which makes me believes these are not actually worms. HTH.

Keepswiming · Jan 24, 2015

Humblefish said:
The discoloration on the back of the dorsal fin is likely a bacterial infection setting in (possibly fin rot). It is not uncommon for a fish with a preexisting parasitic infestation to develop a "secondary" bacterial infection. The good news is you can safely mix most antibiotics (ex. Kanaplex, Furan-2, Maracyn 1 & 2) with copper. But do increase gas exchange in the QT when you do this, to compensate for oxygen depletion.

However, I'm sorry to say that the white looking worms on the face are really bad news. :sad: While I have yet to encounter them personally, I have seen many threads with the same condition and treatment is usually not successful. One theory is that what you are seeing is possibly a bad reaction to copper; as most fish that develop it seem to be in copper at the time. One success story I remember involved two Pyramid Butterflies with this condition. One died, but one healed & survived. If I'm remembering correctly, the poster used the "hedgedrew combo" on both fish - which is Furan-2, Kanaplex and metronidazole (ex. Seachem Metro) all at the same time. Repeated attempts to treat fish with this condition using Prazipro & formalin have failed - which makes me believes these are not actually worms. HTH.

If you can point me in the direction to where i could find the link and read more about this that would be great! thanks!

Humblefish · Jan 24, 2015

Keepswiming said:
If you can point me in the direction to where i could find the link and read more about this that would be great! thanks!

Here is the thread about the Pyramids: lympho vs brook (pyramid butterfly) - Reef Central Online CommunityMaybe contact the OP for advice and see how his butterfly is doing post treatment.

Here's another thread about a PBT with something similar: Need Help IDing This Parasite... - Reef Central Online Community

Keepswiming · Jan 24, 2015

Humblefish said:
Here is the thread about the Pyramids: lympho vs brook (pyramid butterfly) - Reef Central Online CommunityMaybe contact the OP for advice and see how his butterfly is doing post treatment.

Here's another thread about a PBT with something similar: Need Help IDing This Parasite... - Reef Central Online Community

i dont believe these are the same... Whats on my powder blue is not raised nor does it look like these. Thanks for the interesting read though!

Mike J. · Jan 24, 2015

I agree that the blackish spot is probably the early stages of fin rot. But, I believe your fish is infected with Monogeneans. My recommendation would be Praziquantel 2 - 5 mg/L for 2 -3 weeks.

Mike J. · Jan 24, 2015

Go to this link and click on Monogeneans Parasites.

Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites

Humblefish · Jan 24, 2015

Mike J. said:
I agree that the blackish spot is probably the early stages of fin rot. But, I believe your fish is infected with Monogeneans. My recommendation would be Praziquantel 2 - 5 mg/L for 2 -3 weeks.

Prazi is certainly worth a shot, and can safely be mixed with copper/antibiotics. If these are flukes, Prazi should kill them quickly and you should see them fall off. Increase gas exchange exponentially when combining all these meds. I would probably dose Prazi first, and then add antibiotics a few days later. Be on the lookout for any potential bacteria bloom after dosing Prazi with copper; which will turn the water cloudy and quickly deplete the water of oxygen.

Keepswiming · Jan 24, 2015

I am using cuprisorb to take out the cupramine and see if the ich pops up. I wonder if i should set up my 10 gallon hospital tank and treat the tang with meds in there and then put him back into my qt. I would only do this because i dont want to put my other fish leopard wrasse, yellow corris wrasse, borbonius anthia, 2 pairs of clowns and 2 cardinals through the meds as well. Unless, someone can recommend a med that could treat the blue tang and be a prophylactic treatment to the others? Any ideas? i appreciate all the help!

Humblefish · Jan 24, 2015

Keepswiming Are all these fish in QT with him? If this does turn out to be flukes, then you have to assume all of his QT tankmates now have flukes as well and will also need to be treated. Same goes for ich; if the PBT introduced that into your QT then all fish need to be treated. The only thing that may not be transmissible is the bacterial infection. So, you could put him in the 10 gal QT, and treat for that in there. But I would still treat with Prazi first; if this is flukes then that is your most pressing issue.

Keepswiming · Jan 25, 2015

Humblefish said:
@Keepswiming Are all these fish in QT with him? If this does turn out to be flukes, then you have to assume all of his QT tankmates now have flukes as well and will also need to be treated. Same goes for ich; if the PBT introduced that into your QT then all fish need to be treated. The only thing that may not be transmissible is the bacterial infection. So, you could put him in the 10 gal QT, and treat for that in there. But I would still treat with Prazi first; if this is flukes then that is your most pressing issue.

Yes they are all in the 60 gallon q. I decided that i am going to take the cupramine out of the system and treat them all with prazipro. i started that treatment today and also purchased a cleaner wrasse. As soon as i put the cleaner wrasse in, I started the prazipro and the flukes starting falling off my Powder blue. All the other fish started eating the dead flukes and the cleaner wrasse got to work on the tang! I took pictures and will upload them. We will see how thing are tomorrow! Thanks for all the help guys!

Keepswiming · Jan 25, 2015

My treatment in progress, took out the cupramine, and added prazipro/cleaner wrasse. The Flukes started falling off and the wrasse got to work! All my other fish dined on what was falling off

, win for everyone!

eating the leftovers!

Mike J. · Jan 25, 2015

Nice; great pics, too.

Keepswiming · Jan 25, 2015

Mike J. said:
Nice; great pics, too.

Thanks! I will be posting pics again today of his secondary bacteria infection and mild fin degeneration for some input... Can i treat this with the prazi or do i have to wait the 5-7 days?

Mike J. · Jan 25, 2015

Right now I'd concentrate on feeding your fish healthy foods so they build a slime coat and heal themselves. A week from now I'd reassess the situation.

Humblefish · Jan 25, 2015

Awesome pics! The cleaner wrasse is eating dead skin tissue off the PBT. I agree with Mike J.; wait a little bit to see if his natural immune system takes care of the infection or antibiotics are required. Also, in 5-7 days time you will need to do a 20-25% WC and dose Prazipro again. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the â€œnext generationâ€ of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesnâ€™t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

After that and once the infection clears, you can get back to treating for ich.

Keepswiming · Jan 25, 2015

Humblefish said:
Awesome pics! The cleaner wrasse is eating dead skin tissue off the PBT. I agree with @Mike J.; wait a little bit to see if his natural immune system takes care of the infection or antibiotics are required. Also, in 5-7 days time you will need to do a 20-25% WC and dose Prazipro again. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

After that and once the infection clears, you can get back to treating for ich.

He might have been eating the dead skin as well, i did see him eat the flukes that were falling off... What you mentioned is exactly the plan! Thanks!

maroun.c · Jan 26, 2015

One other way would have been a fresh water dip where around 5 min into the dip the Flukes would turn opaque and start moving/detaching from the fish.