Need help with diagnosis

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've had a juvenile yellow tang (3")and a pair of ocellaris fry (1 1/2")in quarantine for almost 6 weeks. I had a blue hippo tang that died after 2 days. I immediately started dosing cupramine. I kept the levels correct throughout treatment and never saw any signs of disease from the remaining fish. So after 4 weeks I put carbon in and get all of the copper out. The clowns (one much more than the other)now have decreased appetite, occasional scrapping, somewhat heavy breathing, and today I observed one clinch its pectoral fins for a few minutes on and off. The yellow tang eats like a horse and shows no abnormal behavior, spots, ect. I have been battling ammonia since almost day one and I'm not sure if this is what is causing it or something else. The ammonia has been as high as .06ppm but usually, and currently .03ppm. I have a new cycled DT if it's believed to be the ammonia but don't want to potentially introduced something. I also have paraguard on standby if needed. Thanks!!!
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I forgot to add that I made extra SW for my waterchange tomorrow so if a larger waterchange is recommended I can try that. I usually do a 10-20% every 3 days.
 

Deinonych

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
585
Reaction score
552
Location
Austin, TX
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Symptoms described could be a number of possible ailments. Assuming you kept Cupramine at therapeutic dosage for the entire treatment period, you can likely rule out Cryptocaryon (ich). It's possible the clownfish could have flukes. I would recommend a regimen of Prazipro; two doses spaced 5-7 days apart with a water change in between. Be sure to remove carbon and any skimming. Just follow the dosing instructions on the bottle.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
First off, I commend you for QT'ing these fish. Moving forward, the use of "seeded" sponges as outlined here will help alleviate problems with ammonia: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

Now onto your problems with the clowns. Have you treated with Prazipro yet? It's possible your clownfish are suffering from gill flukes or internal parasites. Have you noticed any white stringy poop or rubbing targeting the gill area?

You also have to watch out for Brooklynella with clownfish. But there should be obvious visible symptoms of this. Below is a pic of a clown with Brook and also an article about it.

Brooklynella1.JPG


Brooklynella:

Symptoms – This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s).

Treatment options - Formalin bath, followed by additional formalin baths (as needed - but give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths). You can use formalin in a QT (at a much lower concentration than the bath), but great care must be taken to provide plenty of gas exchange as formalin will quickly deplete the water of oxygen. For this reason, doing baths is the safer option as the fish can be pulled from the formalin if showing signs of distress. Formalin-MS is preferred, as that contains 37% formaldehyde. However, in a bind, any medication containing formalin (ex. Quick Cure) is better than nothing. Alternative treatments for brook include metronidazole (ex. Seachem Metronidazole) and acriflavine (ex. Acriflavine-MS). A freshwater dip may provide temporary relief if you are unable to locate any of the aforementioned medications right away.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I haven't used prazipro. I can get it if needed and I have paraguard on hand. Would the cupramine not eradicated flukes? Unfortunately I've never noticed the clownfish poop. If I were to guess where they were rubbing it would be the side of the mouth. But I'm a newb.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Would the cupramine not eradicated flukes?

Cupramine only treats external parasites such as ich & velvet. Flukes will oftentimes harbor inside the gills, out of sight. Therefore, I advocate Prazipro to be used prophylactically in QT.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I got some prazipro today as well as some Dr Tims to help with the bacteria. I'll be starting prazipro tomorrow. I've been doing a lot of reading on velvet, brook, ich, flukes,..... and have a few questions. Velvet and ich should have been eradicated with the cupramine treatment, have you ever heard of it coming back after treatment? I've read that brook is a quick killer. Is it possible that the copper "slowed" the brook down? Are there any other medications that i should round up in case i need them, other than the formalin-ms? I would rather have them here and not have to scramble to find them. Sorry for the newb questions and thanks again for the help.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just dosed prazipro and clownfish are "freaking out". As soon as I added it they started doing some serious flashing and scratching. Could it be flukes not liking the meds?
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Could it be flukes not liking the meds?

Sounds like your clownfish are heavily infested. The way prazi works is it causes severe spasms and paralysis of the worms' muscles. This forces them to dislodge from the fish and they die.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The clowns are flashing and scratching less. They ate very good tonight as well. I actually saw them poop today. It was white and stringy. I hope prazipro does the trick and gets them healthy.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The clowns are flashing and scratching less. They ate very good tonight as well. I actually saw them poop today. It was white and stringy. I hope prazipro does the trick and gets them healthy.

White stringy poop is a symptom of intestinal parasites (different from gill flukes). Sometimes prazi takes care of this, sometimes not. If you are still seeing white stringy poop after two rounds of Prazipro (see more info below), then you need to treat with metronidazole (ex. Seachem Metroplex).

Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).

How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.

Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you Humblefish for helping me sort this out. I will get some ordered and have it on standby.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just an update and record for myself. The fish are looking better and eating. The color of the clowns has changed to more of an orange color. Since I bought them it has been more of a dark orange redish color. Saw more white stringy poop, maybe 3/16"-1/4" long. Nothing like the images that came up when I googled "white stringy poop". The yellow tang is unchanged and eats like a pig.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just an update and record for myself. The fish are looking better and eating. The color of the clowns has changed to more of an orange color. Since I bought them it has been more of a dark orange redish color. Saw more white stringy poop, maybe 3/16"-1/4" long. Nothing like the images that came up when I googled "white stringy poop". The yellow tang is unchanged and eats like a pig.

The stringy poop may continue for a few days even after the worms are gone. However, if it persists, treat with metro.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Will do. I have some metro orderd and on the way. I also have some formalin ms and maracyn two on the way to keep in the medicine cabinet.
A lot less flashing and scratching today, almost non-existent. The clowns seem more lethargic but ate this morning. I'm going to check all of the water parameters in a few. If I need to do a water change I've read that I can redose the ammount of water that's being changes. Is that correct?
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If I need to do a water change I've read that I can redose the ammount of water that's being changes. Is that correct?

Are we talking about Prazipro here or metro?
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Redosing Prazipro. I know not a full dose. For example I have a 20gal and if I do a 25% water change I would add a 1/4 teaspoon of Prazipro.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Redosing Prazipro. I know not a full dose. For example I have a 20gal and if I do a 25% water change I would add a 1/4 teaspoon of Prazipro.

Prazi works its magic in less than 24 hrs, and after 72 hrs is completely gone from the water. So, as long as you can go 24 hrs without doing a WC, I wouldn't bother to redose.
 
OP
OP
E

eeyore357

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
Alabama
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Today the clowns are scratching and the yellow tang has red blotches. I held off on the waterchange yesterday because today I'm past the 72hr mark and ammonia was unreadable (still is). I've read that this is usually an internal bacterial infection and can sometimes be cured with WCs. This is so frustrating. I'm not sure how to proceed other than my planned 5gal WC today. It seems like it's neverending problem after problem. This is definitely not how I imagined my first tank to go.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 66 37.5%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 59 33.5%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 14.2%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 26 14.8%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top