What to use with cupramine for secondary infections and popeye (Angels)

[4FordFamily]

I am treating a large group of angels in my 180 fowlr (with much rock and all inverts removed until cupramine removed) with cupramine. Everyone is doing well, except that my emperor showed minor ich due to the swing in cupramine levels (absorption). My passer also has a pop eye. All are eating well and doing great thus far. For the past week, cupramine levels floated from .15 to .25, .35, .45 each day (as peaks but dropping about .2+ overnight). I am shooting for .5-.6 as I've used in the past.

I had velvet prior, which has not affected the fish cupramine is apparently very effective at low doses. They never showed any spots or outward signs until a day before they died they simply acted lethargic.

Anyhow,

I am worried about secondary infections and such because I know cupramine weakens immune response. I read that keeping ammonia down and having good params is key. I have the ammoni badge and it is completely yellow now, and I will do 35 gallon water changes daily as needed to keep params ideal.

In this large "qt":

Potters angel
Passer angel
Queen angel
Emperor angel
Blue face angel
Regal angel
Rock beauty angel
Moorish idol
Chevron tang
Magnificent foxface
A few other small residents

As you can see I have several fragile angel species in here. No aggression whatsoever in fact the Angels hang out in groups. Upon completion of treatment, a few will be distributed to other tanks in my possession.

I plan to run prazi upon completion of cupramine. While I hear it is completely safe to run them both together, I am not risking it with this group.

WHat should I add to prevent secondary infections? I would prefer not to remove my skimmer, it's aiding with the high bio load immensely. (Asm skimmer rated for 450 gallons). I have turned off the uv and removed carbon algone and unplugged gfo reactor.

Anything that is also safe and would help with passer's eye? It appears to not be getting any worse and if anything is improving. I read to keep water changes up, feed heavily, and it will go away but I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Humblefish]

You can safely use just about any antibiotic with copper. I used to do it all the time with Maracyn 1 & 2. I've also successfully mixed both Cupramine and Coppersafe with Kanaplex & Furan-2. However, I do believe a skimmer will remove the antibiotic meds. For example, Chemiclean used to contain erythromycin (an antibiotic) and a skimmer would pull that right out.

If only the Passer is showing symptoms, I would treat him separately. Just ensure copper levels are the same in the QT before you add him. No down time.

 

[4FordFamily]

My 55 qt is going to be used for all of the inhabitants of my 180 reef so it will be very crowded, unfortunately that isn't an option. Which of those meds would you recommend? I know little of all of them although I vaguely remember myacin or whatever. If a few days will suffice I can cut skimmer off for a few days

Thanks for your reply you're always helpful.

 

[Humblefish]

My 55 qt is going to be used for all of the inhabitants of my 180 reef so it will be very crowded, unfortunately that isn't an option. Which of those meds would you recommend? I know little of all of them although I vaguely remember myacin or whatever. If a few days will suffice I can cut skimmer off for a few days

Thanks for your reply you're always helpful.

It's probably just a gram positive infection, so you can use API Erythromycin. Or Kanaplex or Furan-2 would be fine too. Some people don't like how Furan-2 turns the water yellow (running carbon post treatment fixes this.)

I used to be a big fan of Maracyn 1 & 2. However, ever since Fritz Aquatics bought all the old Mardel brands and apparently reformulated ... Maracyn 1 & 2 turns the water extremely cloudy. Seems to still work fine, but the extreme cloudiness makes me nervous.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'll check my lfs for those. Thank you. 3 days without skimmer suffice you think?

 

[Humblefish]

I'll check my lfs for those. Thank you. 3 days without skimmer suffice you think?

A course of antibiotics typically lasts 4 consecutive days. However, sometimes 2 full courses (8 days) are required to knock a stubborn infection out. 10 days of continuous exposure to antibiotics is considered optimal.

 

[4FordFamily]

A course of antibiotics typically lasts 4 consecutive days. However, sometimes 2 full courses (8 days) are required to knock a stubborn infection out. 10 days of continuous exposure to antibiotics is considered optimal.

I am so hesitant to turn off the skimmer, it removes filth so efficiently! Perhaps I will run it for 3-4 days, then turn back on the skimmer for 3-4 days, and then run antibiotics again?

Maybe even a third course? I am doing frequent water changes but I want to keep water quality optimal

 

[Humblefish]

I am so hesitant to turn off the skimmer, it removes filth so efficiently! Perhaps I will run it for 3-4 days, then turn back on the skimmer for 3-4 days, and then run antibiotics again?

Maybe even a third course? I am doing frequent water changes but I want to keep water quality optimal

If doing 2-3 courses of antibiotic treatment, it's important to administer them consecutively without interruption. To put it crudely: Once you've got your opponent on the ropes, the last thing you want to do is give him time to recover.

 

[4FordFamily]

Update: pop eye went away completely with good water quality and time. At one point it looked like the eye was literally going to fall out. All is well without treatment. It started to get better before I put in meds. Worked well because I kept the skimmer online!

 

[Simmo7671]

Hi Humblefish. Are you saying I can mix Cupramine and Kanaplex in the water at the same time? I started dosing my Fowler’s tang yesterday with Cupramine but I think it might have a secondary infection too. Seachem day they don’t advise mixing meds but saw this thread and thought I’d check with you before I add it? Hope to hear soon