Lets talk about Carbon dosing: By Aquaph8

[revhtree]

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Carbon dosing with emphasis on Vodka/Vinegar

I had a little interest in Vodka/vinegar dosing from a couple people so here's a little write up of how I got started and basic info. I know that Vodka/Vinegar dosing has taken a back seat since the introduction of bio-pellets into the hobby but I still prefer the control of doing it this way. Keep in mind that I'm no scientist or writer for that matter. I claim no responsibility for anything bad that may happen to your tank or its inhabitants. Your actions are completely your own. Anybody with experience carbon dosing that wants to add anything please do so. It would be great to get someone with experience with bio-pellets to add some info too.


Why dose Vodka/Vinegar

Vodka/Vinegar(Carbon) dosing has been reported to fuel increased bacteria populations. These bacteria in turn consume NO3 and Po4 in a reef tank. These increased populations of bacteria are then skimmed out via protein skimming resulting in increased skimmate and lower NO3 and PO4. The lower nitrates and phosphates can also be a great way to fight certain types of algae in your tank.

Another reason to dose, is that as No3 and Po4 come down, your feeding levels can be increased. This works great for tanks with fish that require multiple feeding or for people who just like to keep their fish on the plump side. :bigsmile:


Read before you dose:

1. Make sure you have test kits for NO3(nitrates) and PO4(phosphates). Its very important you know what these levels are before you attempt any form of carbon dosing.

2. Only dose carbon if you have a strong skimmer. The increase in bacteria also uses oxygen and a strong skimmer is needed to increase oxygenation. The use of activated carbon can also help and is encouraged.

3. Carbon dosing is not recommended for people with established deep sand beds. Negative effects have been reported.

4. Your Alk should be maintained at 7-8 dkh during vodka dosing. Any higher than 8 people have reported burnt tips on their SPS.

5. Some have reported bleaching in sps. If your corals start looking light, stop dosing right away.

image via Melevsreef.com


How to dose: (Vodka) For Vinegar use 8 times the dosage

1. Starting dose is 0.1ml per 25 gallons of tank water. This is total system gallons including sumps and after displacement of rocks and sand. Keep this dose for one week. (so if your dosing 100 gallons your dose would be 0.4 ml.

2. You dose will increase 0.5 ml each following week. (so your dose for 100 gallons would be 0.9 for week 2.)

3.Test your NO3 and PO4 often and when your levels start to drop hold your dose where its at. Continue this dose.

4. When your tests read 0 cut that dose in half and this is your maintenance dosage you will continue to dose daily.


Other tips:

- Ive noticed that dosing Vinegar with my usual vodka dosage has helped to keep any cyano bacteria caused by the vodka in check. Some have also expressed positive results from bacterial products like Microbe Lift's special blend and KZ's coral snow.

-Vinegar is also 8 times weaker than Vodka for anyone that wants to increase there levels at a slow rate. There is nothing wrong with taking it slower, in fact I encourage it.

-Some people choose to dose bacterial supplements with their carbon source. Some examples include Brightwells Micro Bacter 7, Probido and I'm sure there are a hundred others.

-Repeat: An alk of 8dkh or lower is recommended do to many experiencing burnt tips on their SPS.

-Some have also reported bacterial blooms and hardening of the sand to be side effects. Taking things slowly and stirring/vacuuming of the sand seem to help.

-Remember that observation is your best test kit. In time you should be able to tell when something isn't right with your tank. Take it slow and be patient, vodka dosing is not meant to show results over night. For some people it can take many months. I currently only dose a small amount of Vodka and vinegar on a somewhat new tank but Ive seen some people dose up to multiple hundreds of ml to their tank to keep their NO3 and PO4 at 0. Just keep in mind they did it over years at a slow rate. Everybody's tank has different needs and carbon dosing is not for everybody. Feel free to ask any questions and Ill do my best to answer them all. Also any feedback is appreciated cause I don't do many write up threads. I'm sure I left some of my observations out and ill add to this thread as they come up. Enjoy

 

[tinctorus]

I started Vinegar dosing about 2-2 1/2 months ago and have noticed a HUGE improvement in my tank, The colors on the corals are MUCH MUCH brighter, the growth of the corals is honestly better than I have EVER had before.
When I started Vinegar dosing I had a very small problem with red slime algae in the tank and for the first 3 weeks of dosing the red slime seemed to be growing just ever so slightly faster than before I started, however now I have 0 red slime growing and I hardly have to clean the tank at all, the only algae growth I get in the tank is MASSIVE amounts of coralline algae growing, to the point that I have to scrap the front glass about 1 time a week because it grows so fast

I got a duncan coral a number of months back and after 3 months I had only grown 1 additional head, since i started dosing the vinegar in the last 2 months my duncan has grown an ADDITIONAL 6 heads!! it's incredible

Also FWIW the only thing I dose in the tank is B-Ionic 2 part and do a weekly/Bi-Weekly 10-15 gallon water change

 

[navila06]

I am on week 2 or vodka dosing and have seen a dramatic decrease in my N & P. It has slowed/stopped the growth of the GHA growing in my tank. I have not gotten to the black tar skimate, but I have definetly seen a dramatic increase in skimate.

 

[Techbiker]

Did vodka for 3 months, with very good results, after understanding well and the impact onmy tank, i went with biopellets , and the results are as good or better, with out have to dose
just my 2 cents

 

[asmashling]

5. Some have reported bleaching in sps. If your corals start looking light, stop dosing right away.

Hey Rev

i agree with you in your tips and explanation. But cutting down the dosage totally only while having bleached Tips is a absolute no-go. It would cause the bacteria to die quickly and you could gain a NO3/PO4 Spike, which is worse then having bleached Sps`. The trick is when something happens, always cut the dosage in half but never stop.

Other Tips
What also could happen is, that a white slime appears on the glass which is a bacteria film and is not bad. Just cut the dosage in half and it will dissappear after a few days. It is a sign that the population to many bacteria has increased to much.

Always have your NO3 and PO4 in check is the key to succeed. Because depending on the Nutrientlevels when starting Vodka Vinegar Dosing when the NO3 drop comes to fast - your corals will be in trouble. It`s always a good idea to feed them, when levels start to fall.

Stability in the dosing is also very important. Cut your daily dose in half and give the first part in the morning when light is going up, and the second part when lights go down. Therfore you will achieve that the bacteria will "always" have something to eat.

When you forget a dosage on a day, don`t add it the day after - just leave it out of your tank - you would cause a big instability into your system when doubling the dosage on one day.

Using a Dosing Pump could help you on that issue. Thinning the vodka/vinegar in RO/DI and make everything with a dosing pump will let the headache stay away.

Many People reported better results with adding also vinegar over a long term usage.

Carbon is not carbon. When using Vodka the carbon is within alcohol/ethanol, when using vinegar you have acetate as your carbon dosage, which could cause different bacteria to grow/expand the population.

 

[Volpone]

any one here try to add vodka /vinegar to RO container ?? And how should follow the dose in this case ?

 

[Railcar79]

I found that dosing 100-200 ml on tank maintenence day does a great job with algae. After that dose, I don't care if it is there or not. Lol

 

[ATLJonathan]

I've been dosing 1ml daily of 80 proof vodka for 5 days and my nitrates doubled from 1 to 2, my phosphates slightly down. I have 500 gallons of water volume, and it is a supplement to a reactor full of BioPellets. My BioPellets have been good for a nitrate level or 1.0, but not lower. I would like to reduce water changes so I am looking for ways to maintain the quality of my water for longer periods of time without water changes. If I had a larger BioPellet reactor, I probably would just add a couple of more cups of biopellets. Thus the idea to try a tiny amount of Vodka.

 

[swk]

any one here try to add vodka /vinegar to RO container ?? And how should follow the dose in this case ?

I dose vinegar and kalk in my ato water. I average out my daily top off usage and add my vinegar dose per that number.

For example, if I average a gallon a day of top off water, and my vinegar dose is 30 ml, I add 30 ml per gallon of top off water. That make sense? Working well so far.

 

[dragonfisher33]

so if I want to go the vinegar route, what's a good starting dosage amount for my 29gal?

 

[Volpone]

Thx SWK

 

[swk]

Granted it's not a perfect method as I'm sure the actual amount varies. But I was told by a very well known proponent of vinegar dosing that this was an excellent way to dose. My tank is in the house which is pretty stable temp wise, so I don't think it varies too much and vinegar is much more forgiving then vodka, according to what I've read.

 

[dragonfisher33]

Granted it's not a perfect method as I'm sure the actual amount varies. But I was told by a very well known proponent of vinegar dosing that this was an excellent way to dose. My tank is in the house which is pretty stable temp wise, so I don't think it varies too much and vinegar is much more forgiving then vodka, according to what I've read.

the reason why I'm asking is because if vinegar is 8 timed less potent, should I start out with .8ml of vinegar? or can I start with 0.1ml and work my way up?

 

[swk]

I actually started at .15 per gallon of top off water right of the bat. That dosed my 50 gal system at .15 a day. There's some very good articles that I'm sure you find via google that should help you. I started off using it to fortify my kalk, but decided to go for it because of a nitrate issue.

 

[Boa1277]

I dose a mixture of Vodka, Vinegar, and Sugar. This has been very successful at controlling Nitrates and semi successful at controlling Phosphates. I also am using Prohibio Reef Digest every other week the Vodka blend is just food for the bacteria that Reef Digest creates.

 

[swk]

Phosphates aren't a problem for me at .02, but nitrate was a problem at 10+, so carbon dosing seemed like a no brainer

 

[dgrigor02]

any one here try to add vodka /vinegar to RO container ?? And how should follow the dose in this case ?

This is not a good idea. I've heard this many times over the years in the Reef Chemistry forum of reef central for slightly different purpose but the result is the same. You can't add vinegar to ro water prior to feeding a kalk reactor becuase the bacteria will start to grow in your ro water and thus less effective for the reactor.

Same principal would apply here. Bacteria is going to grow in your ro container and not in the tank so would be less effective than adding vinegar to the tank directly.

 

[swk]

Not so if you add kalk. The high ph environment does not lend itself to bacterial growth

 

[Volpone]

This is not a good idea. I've heard this many times over the years in the Reef Chemistry forum of reef central for slightly different purpose but the result is the same. You can't add vinegar to ro water prior to feeding a kalk reactor becuase the bacteria will start to grow in your ro water and thus less effective for the reactor.

Same principal would apply here. Bacteria is going to grow in your ro container and not in the tank so would be less effective than adding vinegar to the tank directly.

How come that bacteria will grow in RO container ??? Im not chemical but what I know that bacteria we are seeking will grow in salt water not fresh water

 

[Branden]

How come that bacteria will grow in RO container ??? Im not chemical but what I know that bacteria we are seeking will grow in salt water not fresh water

Yes we WANT saltwater bacteria but there is freshwater and it's not like they know not to grow in the ATO. I tried it once with just water and vinigar and got a slime on by ATO. Also with using it in ATO you will have to adjust by evaporation rate at different times of year.