Broad-Spectrum LED Blend

benny z

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recently i've been asked quite a bit what leds i'm using, and i see led threads daily here with questions usually aimed at "which led fixture should i buy"?

i think we've come a long way in understanding how led output affects corals, and have really just more recently begun exploring spectrum blending.

it's my belief that all these so-called early adopters who abandoned leds due to the effects on their corals, probably did it at a time when there was just a basic blue/white combination of leds (and likely low quality emitters, at that) with no real dimming control. we see loads of successful led tanks nowadays, and i think it's mostly because we've come to understand the potential of full-powered leds and the necessity of dimming and additional spectrum.

i'm by no means trying to start yet another thread to debate that topic, rather i would like to show what's currently working for me. and i invite anyone else who is happy with their led tank to share what is working for them.

there are 4 channels of lights. in the image below you can see the array. i chose the warm white v/s a red emitter because i was told by a vendor here that the warm white cree has the same red peak as the all-red peak, but with additional beneficial spectrum. the hyper violets are on their own driver and it is not dimmable. i also run the fans at 24v from the power supply of the reefbrite, so it is also running at 100%. the whites are on another driver, dimmed to about 25%. the remaining blues are on the final driver, dimmed to about 33%. there are no optics, so it's a full 120* spread, and the tank this is all over is a nano tank with diminsions of 18x18x20.

it makes for a very blue-dominant dim look, but has enough white that it's not a pure windex-look. i would say it's similar to the look of what a low wattage 20k halide would look like over the tank, but with the electric pop on the corals that you can only get with leds.

hard to say that i don't want to experiment more with additional colors, but i'm happy with how my corals are looking and growing at the moment!

ledconfig.jpg


LEDs.jpg


cheers!
 

rip

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Nice I'm considering very similar set up
Also could you share a pic of heat sink and the brand and ratio of LEDs thanks
Rip
 
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benny z

benny z

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Haha no problem! I do have some cell phone pics from when it was installed showing the heat sink.

9asututa.jpg


yjyjaruh.jpg


8amana3a.jpg


eby4a2us.jpg
 

Ron Reefman

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Ben, I agree with almost everything you had to say. I just wish I had the time to play with layouts in a couple of 'spare' fixtures I have laying around.

I was a serious MH and t5 user with 4 tanks, a total of 1500w of MH and almost 400w of t5. I got an Eco Tech Radion (in trade for an expensive MH fixture I wasn't using anymore) and used it over a frag tank. I was happy to see corals look good and grow at the same rate they did with a MH. But they run kind of hot, hooking up a computer to change the program was a giant PITA as far as I was concerned... oh, and they cost $750 each to cover 2' x 2' on tank! So I started looking around. I went to the MACNA in Dallas back in 2012 and saw that some leds, like Acan, looked pretty well made and at a much better price point but still a bit pricey for my taste. Then I read about EverGrow on RC and heard almost nothing but good reviews. I checked them out, talked 9 other guys into a group buy and we got 24 fixtures that all had custom led layouts. I got 2 IT2080's for my 180g Reef, an IT2040 for my 70g anemone tank, and 3 D120 for my frag and QT. BTW, those 6 fixtures cost me just over $1300 total, including air freight from China to Florida.

I was impressed with the build quality and the controllers. I was so used to a 1 hour sunrise/sunset with t5 actinics that doing longer sunrise and sunset was a hard habit to break. But over the past 14 months I've gradually gone to a 6 hour sunrise, 2 hours of midday and 8 hours of sunset. It starts out all blue and gets whiter as the day goes on and then gets more and more blue again during sunset. It makes for a great tank to look at and see the changes over the course of the day. The coral growth has been just as good in the 180g reef (mostly sps) as it was with 1000w of MH and 160w of t5.

My personal opinion is that the manufacturers need to get better quality white leds into their fixtures. A much higher CRI (Color Rendering Index) which will give the corals better color by having a much fuller spectrum of color to reflect off the coral in the white rather than just a single red, green and blue version of white led like they use now. But as I understand it, those quality white leds cost 10 to 20 times more than the whites they use now. I'd like less white leds so I get at least a 3:1 ratio if not a 4:1 ratio of blue to white. And the better white leds eliminate the need for the red and green leds most of them use now.

However, leds do have some disadvantages as well. Because the light is focus with lenses, there is much less light bouncing around inside our tanks and the shadows created by rock or coral overhangs and outcroppings is much deeper with leds than with MH or t5. And dense branching coral (like birdsnest or hammer corals as examples) end up dying out on the underside. And leds are not 'full spectrum' fixtures... yet. I think they should be called multi spectrum fixtures. After all, they really only have about 5-10 different colors of leds and they are fairly narrow in range. Lets say each one covers 10nm of spectrum, multiply that by the number of colors you have (lets say 10) and you've hit about 100 wavelengths, or 30-40% of the spectrum between 400nm violet and 700nm deep red. MH and t5 hit all 300 wavelengths and that's why they give better color rendition to your corals. But then the heavy blue led count in led fixtures do get some of the fluorescing colors in the coral to really pop. So it's kind of a matter of personal taste. Some day soon we'll have both and at a rational price.
 
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rip

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Benny you really did a neat clean job looks like pro job !
Be careful though others will want you to do theirs too lazy people!
Will you do mine lol!
 
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benny z

benny z

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Ben, I agree with almost everything you had to say. I just wish I had the time to play with layouts in a couple of 'spare' fixtures I have laying around.

I was a serious MH and t5 user with 4 tanks, a total of 1500w of MH and almost 400w of t5. I got an Eco Tech Radion (in trade for an expensive MH fixture I wasn't using anymore) and used it over a frag tank. I was happy to see corals look good and grow at the same rate they did with a MH. But they run kind of hot, hooking up a computer to change the program was a giant PITA as far as I was concerned... oh, and they cost $750 each to cover 2' x 2' on tank! So I started looking around. I went to the MACNA in Dallas back in 2012 and saw that some leds, like Acan, looked pretty well made and at a much better price point but still a bit pricey for my taste. Then I read about EverGrow on RC and heard almost nothing but good reviews. I checked them out, talked 9 other guys into a group buy and we got 24 fixtures that all had custom led layouts. I got 2 IT2080's for my 180g Reef, an IT2040 for my 70g anemone tank, and 3 D120 for my frag and QT. BTW, those 6 fixtures cost me just over $1300 total, including air freight from China to Florida.

I was impressed with the build quality and the controllers. I was so used to a 1 hour sunrise/sunset with t5 actinics that doing longer sunrise and sunset was a hard habit to break. But over the past 14 months I've gradually gone to a 6 hour sunrise, 2 hours of midday and 8 hours of sunset. It starts out all blue and gets whiter as the day goes on and then gets more and more blue again during sunset. It makes for a great tank to look at and see the changes over the course of the day. The coral growth has been just as good in the 180g reef (mostly sps) as it was with 1000w of MH and 160w of t5.

My personal opinion is that the manufacturers need to get better quality white leds into their fixtures. A much higher CRI (Color Rendering Index) which will give the corals better color by having a much fuller spectrum of color to reflect off the coral in the white rather than just a single red, green and blue version of white led like they use now. But as I understand it, those quality white leds cost 10 to 20 times more than the whites they use now. I'd like less white leds so I get at least a 3:1 ratio if not a 4:1 ratio of blue to white. And the better white leds eliminate the need for the red and green leds most of them use now.

However, leds do have some disadvantages as well. Because the light is focus with lenses, there is much less light bouncing around inside our tanks and the shadows created by rock or coral overhangs and outcroppings is much deeper with leds than with MH or t5. And dense branching coral (like birdsnest or hammer corals as examples) end up dying out on the underside. And leds are not 'full spectrum' fixtures... yet. I think they should be called multi spectrum fixtures. After all, they really only have about 5-10 different colors of leds and they are fairly narrow in range. Lets say each one covers 10nm of spectrum, multiply that by the number of colors you have (lets say 10) and you've hit about 100 wavelengths, or 30-40% of the spectrum between 400nm violet and 700nm deep red. MH and t5 hit all 300 wavelengths and that's why they give better color rendition to your corals. But then the heavy blue led count in led fixtures do get some of the fluorescing colors in the coral to really pop. So it's kind of a matter of personal taste. Some day soon we'll have both and at a rational price.

yesss! this is exactly the type of discussion i was hoping to generate. we think alike!

also, regarding the shading of leds - i've seen it also where large colonies are completely unlit underneith and die where they are shaded. i have a friend with a mature tank with some large sps colonies and he has experienced this. i'm thinking that there are a couple of options to combat this, one being multiple angles of mounting with regards to the leds. maybe we will begin seeing people mounting led "spotlights" to the bottom sides of their tanks aimed up at the corals - or maybe we will see rotating frag plugs which keep corals spinning to receive light on all sides...we've seen moving lights on rails...who knows what we will come up with next! :)

and absolutely agree on the spectrum range coverage being slim compared to mh/fluorescent tubes, but that we are "getting there" with leds - and i'm sure we will "get there" completely in the coming years.

Benny you really did a neat clean job looks like pro job !
Be careful though others will want you to do theirs too lazy people!
Will you do mine lol!

ah, thanks - but i can't take full credit. bill at reefledlights.com was extremely helpful in my selection, and provided all of the components for my hood once we nailed down the combination (save for the reefbrite led bar which i already had). he sent me the fully-assembled heat sink with leds installed and pre-wired. all i had to do was install it and wire up the drivers.
 

revhtree

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Great thread!
 

phys

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I've been using a RB/Cool White fixture on a 20g for years and the corals are doing great. They're doing better now that I've added a PWM control on the whites to decrease the output. I have a "full spectrum" Violet (410 peak), RB, blue, CW, and NW LED light over a 150g for several months and things look great... The colors are better than the two LED fixture so yes, more colors are better.
 

KologneKoral

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CRI would seem to be unimportant. Like it says, it is colour rendering index, which means, it is a reflection of its ability to reproduce 5500K sunlight colouring. Not what we want. Spectrum is really the only thing that counts one way or the other. Just how close to a natural spectrum one wants to come is another story. Previous lighting is no way near natural, but it appeals to our aesthetic.

We have a good idea which wavelengths the corals require to live, we are still gathering infos as to which wavelengths influence which pigments, which seems to be more interesting to many (at the cost of coral health?). For the record, any reasonable spectrum covering about 420nm-480nm, plus some white for balance seems to work, as far as keeping corals alive and healthy, with vigourous growth. The more complex the area between 390nm-500nm the better. The most difficult part is creating the desired mix, as we are working in an area of the spectrum our eyes cannot see well.

Although some will argue the other way, I have found no evidence that red light benefits corals generally. It may well help promote certain pigments, as corals use pigments to control the light reaching into their tissues, but this cannot be considered a benefit, rather an adaptation. Also, pigment production is not simply a reaction to a specific wavelength. It seems much more complex. Take the kaede reds, which are derived from green pigments. The green transforms permanently to red when exposed to about 403nm. Why? Other reds do not show this response. Clearly the similar optic of the pigments does not mean a similar environment. Or does it, just different paths to a common end?

Just some thoughts....

J.
 

TOPLIS

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TOPLIS

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I'm running 12 bulb t5 with mix of whites and blues...with two tru lumen actinic blue LEDs on each side. Ramp up blues to whites and ramp down whites to blues


Cannot get reds to pop
 

Daniel@R2R

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Awesome info here! I may have missed it, but are these Luxeons, CREEs, or something else? Curious about what the quality is that's needed for sorting like this...I may have to seek you out in the future to design a setup. LOL
 

JoaoTomas

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Great thread!Well in my case i have 3 LED Cannons with 100W multichip (W, RB, V) with no lenses in a 150g tank. The problem i had was the shadows too, i prefered to have 1 T5 in both sides of the tank to cover all the shadows and i think is useful to cover the lack of spectrum too. This week i ordered the lumia multichip with more one channel of violet and red color, hope to see benefits from that.
 

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great thread. I have 5 tanks all with LEDs on them. With softies, LPS and simple SPS Like caps. My old school blue and white non dimmable D120s do perfect. They are on a 90g. On my tanks with sticks I want a full spec with a lot of Low 400 nms in it. IMO the low 400s NM is the one color that we need more of.
I like you DIY because of all the 420NM in it. As far as the problem with the underside of corals because of shadowing I use crush coral or white starboard for reflection. The idea of putting lights under the tank with a bare bottom is a very good idea but will need to keep the bottom glass clean and clear of coralline algae.
My junk *** phone does not show the colors but here is the tank about 6 months ago. I will take some better pics when I get home tonight.
 

TJ's Reef

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Great thread Ben, do not know how I've missed it for this long. As you know am a BIG fan of Broad Spectrum LED lighting especially DIY and have spent years in research creating mine and many others. I went with a slightly different approach in spreading out my emitters over the tank rather than clustering getting similar coverage as T5's. Also control/dim separate circuits of blended emitters (East-to-West circuitry) rather than individual color groups other than having a separate string of Cree XM-L 6500K for a 2 hour 'Noonday' spike. Each circuit has two different bins each of RB and CW + Blue 480-490nm + Violet 410-420nm and then 2ea Red 630nm, Green 525nm and Cyan 510nm spread out over full array. No optics on any emitters as tank is only 20", giving a very well blended light output. This DIY array has been up and running since 12/2011 with just a couple of upgrade mods in adding 6 Violet emitters and changing out some old Epistar for bin specific Cree's in CW.

Array lifted to show layout (couple missing/burnt out CW emitters from mishap on right side now replaced)
LED array 1-18-14.jpg


True colors as I see them, no Photo Shop enhancing just a bit White Balance on DLSR
Top Down front left 5-6-14.jpg
Top Down mid right front 5-6-14.jpg


More current photo FTS 7/01/14
FTS 7-01-14.jpg


Cheers, Todd
 
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sirreal

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Beautiful Todd. Let me ask you if you noticed a difference when you added the Violets? Growth? colors? I personally think that 400-430 is very important
 

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