So I'm considering going back to MH and T5 combo from a radion light. I have yet to see a tank that coral has truly done well over a long period when only running one fixture. The successful "led" tanks I have seen are large volume with multiple fixtures suspended rather high. I've had plenty of success with MH and T5 but worry about losing the color from leds. Who's had success with a single fixture? Pictures or it never happened. In case someone is wondering I have a 60 cube with a single radion about 10 inches above the tank. Lps are doing great. Sps...not so much.
has anyone had luck with one led fixture?
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I guess it depends on what you mean by a single fixture. As in 1 cluster of LEDs? There are large 48" long reefbreeder fixtures or strips like build my LED that cover the entire length of the tank that are only 1 fixture but provide even coverage.
GreatWhiteTang
Active Member
If you buy nice leds.. And the tank you have is within the led capability to spread yes, they require more fixtures because of spread the question is kind of impossible to answer. I have 2 Kessil which is required. For. My tank size.. Nothing extra and they work excellent, but if I. Used one half of. My tank wouldn't be lit.. Loaded (?) Perhaps?
I do wish manufactures would provide more information with LED lighting when it comes to stony coral. If only using 1 puck or cluster above a tank coral that don't sway like SPS will eventually self shade and that area will recede. Coral that sway like some LPS it's not bad as they move around so more areas get light. Coral in general does just fine under 1 cluster, but if SPS it will eventually reach a point where there is trouble.
LarrySmith75
New Member
I have 3 of the first 120w Chinese black boxes on my 180 mixed reef. I am growing SPS just fine. In fact it's growing to the surface and splitting off from there. I have a tabling Acro 3 inches from the bottom and it grows great.
Pfisherman
Active Member
I think that the most important part of this question is that the OP said "long term success" and I just don't think that there are a lot of reefers that are qualified to answer this because so many folks dip out of the reef game in less than a year and because older led units just weren't ready for keeping coral. I personally just made the switch about two months ago and I have mixed emotions about it. The led is very focused which definitely leads to shaddowing that my banana lokani doesn't really like, also I am concerned that there may be some kind of radiation or something missing that helps any photosynthetic organism thrive. so I really believe that if I added two T5ho back into the mix it would be perfect, but thats going backwards, right? My birdsnest corals and Psammacora grow like weeds under the LED though and I think I will wait until the six month mark to change anything up.
GreatWhiteTang
Active Member
3 Watt Cree leds have been around for the better part of a decade, just now pricing is more friendly making them more accessible. Before I ran my Kessil I ran a self built system I made on aluminum rail slides, the leds and drivers at the time ran me close to 1600 bucks. With that said I've ran leds for. About 7 out of my 9 Years in the hobby and have found no need for any supplementation other than preference. If shading is an issue change spacing and add more fixtures or. Custom built with this already in mind. Agree that people often sprint into a reef tank only to run out of money or patience and tear down an unsuccessful tank! It's a shame! The led /t5 combo is definitely trending, I think this is a good concept if you just run all white leds with actinic. T5s, but then your not utilizing the benefit of the leds to the fullest.
pickupman66
5000 Club Member
I have run LEDs for about 3 years now. 2 years with a custom build DIY Led system on my 180 and now almost a year with a Reef Radiance Lumentek Pro 240 on my 66 gallon system. on my 180, the LED were arranged to give me complete converage. I did not supplement with T-5 and at that time, when I kepy my maintenance up, I had some KILLER SPS and Zoanthid growth. Unfortunately husbandry Practices (or lack there of) led to the demise of the tank and in July of last year, I moved into a 66 gallon tank designed for simplicity. DC pumps and a single LED fixture. I have not attempted SPS at all yet in this tank due to a pretty sour ending in my old system. I have not been working hard on my testing or dosing or anything either so I cannot speak much on it. However, I have had pretty good Zoanthid growth and LPS growth when I am not fighting a nitrate or phosphate issue.
IMO, water quality goes alot further for SPS than the lights. with excellent water, you can get SPS growth from most any LED that produces enough par.
IMO, water quality goes alot further for SPS than the lights. with excellent water, you can get SPS growth from most any LED that produces enough par.
aquariumrescueunit
Active Member
aqua illumination nanos
i have been using 2 aqua illumination nanos over my 55gallon for quite some time. not only do they look and work awesome, but my corals grow fast under them. they can do all types too lps sps stony soft etc.
i have been using 2 aqua illumination nanos over my 55gallon for quite some time. not only do they look and work awesome, but my corals grow fast under them. they can do all types too lps sps stony soft etc.
wrestle1952
Community Member
LED debate
I have been "out of the game" for the last two years. I relocated from San Diego to San Francisco and sold my tank prior to my relocation. I ran MH and T5's over my tank as I have for @ 15 years. My SPS dominated tanks were always successful. When I was in San Diego I was bombarded by criticism regarding my hesitancy t convert to LED's. The exotic names were there Eco Exotic, Kessil, blah, blah, blah. People bragged how they had the best and most expensive lighting EVER. Local shops did nothing to dispel these concepts since it was money in their pockets. Whenever I inquired about SPS growth and coloration young what I term "designer reefers" would always point out designer names that dramatically improved their tanks for a while only to find out the have dropped out of the hobby. The "wonder light" led to other debates regarding intensity (the max I've seen is 40% power to the LED's) height above the tank, many of you know the drill. Two years later the latest and greatest at that time have become even more later and greater such as Eco Exotic, Kessil, again you know the drill. It was strictly white and blue, now greens, reds, added and some with UV diodes have been added. Now I am reading where people are adding T5's to get better coloration and growth. Really? Then why not just go with T5's? I used to think that eventually LED's would be perfected to the point where ALL not just some SPS would flourish. I have yet to see this occur. My point is this: we as humans and all other life on this planet need a variety of nutrition to flourish. We can survive on SPECIFIC foods. Let's go with basic nourishment. Let's say everyday, every meal, you ate a potato (your choice how it is fixed), romaine lettuce, filet mignon, milk, and water. You would survive, you would not thrive. This is the long and short of LED's. Regardless of the brand (anywhere from the designer names to the budget stuff on EBAY) LED's send out SPECIFIC wave lengths of light. Color temperature on fluorescent (T5, T8, VH) and metal halide PEAK at a certain temperature BUT they still throw out light in different wave lengths. Hence light dependent animals get the VARIETY of nutrition needed to thrive not just survive.
LED's are cannot do this or come close. The blue wave lengths are 460 nm which is good for color. It won't hit the required 420nm of an actinic bulb. I keep my eyes on this forum since it will still be a year or two for setting up my next reef tank.
I have been "out of the game" for the last two years. I relocated from San Diego to San Francisco and sold my tank prior to my relocation. I ran MH and T5's over my tank as I have for @ 15 years. My SPS dominated tanks were always successful. When I was in San Diego I was bombarded by criticism regarding my hesitancy t convert to LED's. The exotic names were there Eco Exotic, Kessil, blah, blah, blah. People bragged how they had the best and most expensive lighting EVER. Local shops did nothing to dispel these concepts since it was money in their pockets. Whenever I inquired about SPS growth and coloration young what I term "designer reefers" would always point out designer names that dramatically improved their tanks for a while only to find out the have dropped out of the hobby. The "wonder light" led to other debates regarding intensity (the max I've seen is 40% power to the LED's) height above the tank, many of you know the drill. Two years later the latest and greatest at that time have become even more later and greater such as Eco Exotic, Kessil, again you know the drill. It was strictly white and blue, now greens, reds, added and some with UV diodes have been added. Now I am reading where people are adding T5's to get better coloration and growth. Really? Then why not just go with T5's? I used to think that eventually LED's would be perfected to the point where ALL not just some SPS would flourish. I have yet to see this occur. My point is this: we as humans and all other life on this planet need a variety of nutrition to flourish. We can survive on SPECIFIC foods. Let's go with basic nourishment. Let's say everyday, every meal, you ate a potato (your choice how it is fixed), romaine lettuce, filet mignon, milk, and water. You would survive, you would not thrive. This is the long and short of LED's. Regardless of the brand (anywhere from the designer names to the budget stuff on EBAY) LED's send out SPECIFIC wave lengths of light. Color temperature on fluorescent (T5, T8, VH) and metal halide PEAK at a certain temperature BUT they still throw out light in different wave lengths. Hence light dependent animals get the VARIETY of nutrition needed to thrive not just survive.
LED's are cannot do this or come close. The blue wave lengths are 460 nm which is good for color. It won't hit the required 420nm of an actinic bulb. I keep my eyes on this forum since it will still be a year or two for setting up my next reef tank.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
With the right mix of quality LEDs one can duplicate the wavelengths of almost any MH or T5.
Soon you will see a USA made LED fixture that does exactly this via a 9 channel controller.
Until then there have been many successful Reefs using only DIY LEDs
Bill
This I feel has strayed a bit into the area of "can LEDs grow SPS". That wasn't the question, there are plenty of people that have success over several years with LEDs and as for spectrum that isn't all that hard to test and you can see the spectrums for yourself on many sites and see there isn't a section that is lacking with modern high end LEDs.
The question was about long term success with one cluster of LEDs either all in 1 group or in closely spaced groups. Not multiple fixtures or large banks of lights like 48" long reefbreeders or build my LED strips. I still have not seen anyone that has been able to raise a large SPS colony under 1 cluster, or cluster that are really far apart without having serious die off due to shelf shading, but manufactures don't say this. I love LEDs but I have them spread out all over the tank surface.
The question was about long term success with one cluster of LEDs either all in 1 group or in closely spaced groups. Not multiple fixtures or large banks of lights like 48" long reefbreeders or build my LED strips. I still have not seen anyone that has been able to raise a large SPS colony under 1 cluster, or cluster that are really far apart without having serious die off due to shelf shading, but manufactures don't say this. I love LEDs but I have them spread out all over the tank surface.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
I have seen a lot of tanks lit by LEDs.
The long term success stories were mostly high end Cree LED fixtures generating high PAR levels.
A single Radion is only the equivalent to a 250 watt mh. Back in the day most augmented these with VHO or T5
Bill
I guess I am not explaining well, and perhaps I missed the OP's point, but I am not talking about PAR levels at all, I am talking about the shading issues caused by using only a small cluster of lights. Not DIY where you space out LEDs over a couple of feet, but 1 fixture with clusters that are all in a few inches of each other. Have you seen large SPS colonies that were grown out under only a single point cluster of lights? I mean like a 1 foot in diameter birdsnest or larger. I have not seen any, and when I played around with using a small single cluster of LEDs I noticed significant tissue recession in the shaded areas.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
I'm a bit old school. Grew up using 400 watt MH back in the day.
Your MH Bulb would be a point source of 1"x2", this inside a reflector say 12"x12" gave excellent dispersion and at 400 watts more than enough PAR.
Todays common LED Fixtures offer the dispersion or intensity but not both.
For your average 24" wide tank a LED Fixture offering a 400 watt MH equivalent would work well as light bounces and reflects. Light that hits the sand bad is wasted not...As it reflects to the underside of large coral colonies.
This reflected light is useful only if its strong enough.
Large Colony SPS need intense light, reflected light to their underside and good flow to provide nutrients/food to the shaded polyps.
Bill
Your MH Bulb would be a point source of 1"x2", this inside a reflector say 12"x12" gave excellent dispersion and at 400 watts more than enough PAR.
Todays common LED Fixtures offer the dispersion or intensity but not both.
For your average 24" wide tank a LED Fixture offering a 400 watt MH equivalent would work well as light bounces and reflects. Light that hits the sand bad is wasted not...As it reflects to the underside of large coral colonies.
This reflected light is useful only if its strong enough.
Large Colony SPS need intense light, reflected light to their underside and good flow to provide nutrients/food to the shaded polyps.
Bill
So with reflectors isn't that MH really a light source of 12x12 even though it started from the bulb and it's bouncing off all sorts of directions coming out of that many faceted reflector? Are there any cluster LED fixtures out there can can provide that much PAR over 24" and not just wreck everything in the middle with super high PAR? I don't mean fixtures like yours where they LEDs are spread out, but something like a kessil. While people have great success with those they have multiple ones, I have not seen anyone that could support large SPS with something like a single 360W despite the company saying it can cover a 24" cube (60g).
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Cluster LEDs is an ambiguous definition.
Super High PAR may be a good thing but what is super High PAR?
2000+ Natural Sunlight on a shallow reef or 350 PAR the low point of photo inhibition in some corals?
Never judge the light output of a LED fixture by watts....Just asking the question because there is very little available for the Reef Keeper to make an informed Decision.
Back in the Day, a 400 watt MH for SPS or 250 Watt for LPS & Softies was a lot simpler for the consumer.
Kessils are good, better than Black Box Imports. More vs Less are better for a SPS Reef.
To get the coverage you need to hang them higher which limits the light reflected to the base of large colonies.
I can think of only one 166 watt LED fixture specifically designed to cover a 24"x24" with the intensity of a 400 watt MH. This will be released soon.
To put things in perspective Lighting a Reef is like a Gourmet Recipe. Every chef has their own preference and every diner has their own tastes. There is a lot of debate on this subject.
Bill
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