Ongoing GBA explosion. Toss the tank??

[nanolicious]

I have a 20L that's been established for nearly a year. I'm battling hair algae and green bubble algae. The GBA has nearly taken over my tank. It is everywhere. I'm assuming in my attempt to remove it I've popped quite a few accidentally, which would be the reason for such an outbreak. I'm at my wits end. I bought 3 emerald crabs, and several of my zoas have been closed since I added the crabs. One of them seems damaged now and appears to be melting away. I'm finding bright orange pieces of my solar flare zoa floating around. Out of desparation to save my zoas I have set up a 10g to house them in until I see what the crabs can do. My question is, should I salvage the corals, toss my lr and start over? It's really bad.
A little info on the tank...
2 circ pumps
AC 70 running chemipure elite and phosguard.
Weekly 4/5 gallon water changes using recently purchased RODI unit, 0 TDS, Red Sea coral pro salt mix. Was using distilled water from grocery store and ro water from lfs before buying the rodi unit.
Dual T5HO with ATI bulbs on 7 hours day. Blue evening LED strip on for 3 hours at night.
1/4" mesh screen top.
What could be the issue?

 

[3Twinklets]

Water quality is your issue. It sounds like your nitrates and Phosphates are out of control. You need to get your parameters under control, Then you can address the algae issue with the correct clean up crew.

 

[nanolicious]

Makes sense but I don't see how the water quality could be so out of control with weekly water changes, chemipure elite and phosguard changed out regularly. Plus I completely remove and replace the polyfil in the filter with each water change. I only feed every other day, and sparingly.

 

[3Twinklets]

There are several ways to reduce the algae in your tank, however nitrates and phosphates must be feeding it . What are your readings on your nitrates and phosphates?

 

[NanaReefer]

My guess would be, that it stems from your old water source. Of course your rock is now saturated with it. Your rock has absorbed any and all phosphates that the water contained. It will take quite some time for it all to leach out.
IMO if it's as bad as you say....save your Zoas and whatever else you want and get new rock. Just make sure that what you save doesn't carry the algae back.

 

[SantaMonica]

I don't see how the water quality could be so out of control

Well it certainly is; just ask the algae

with weekly water changes

Does almost nothing; removes 20%, for one day only.

chemipure elite

The iron they added to the carbon does absorb some phosphate.

phosguard changed out regularly

Also removes some phosphate.

I completely remove and replace the polyfil

Does not remove anything but food particles.

feed every other day, and sparingly.

It's the cumulative feeding, not the daily feeding, that caused the problem.

been established for nearly a year.

This is about when it happens. Basically, your rocks gave you a free ride, doing all the absorbing for the first year, because your exports were weak. Now the rocks are full.

This might help:

Nutrient Export

What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients come from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

Then the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crew, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

So whenever you have algae "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then, there is a problem).

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals

And I'm guessing that you've moved your rocks around, and scrubbed them...

What is Periphyton?

Periphyton is what turns your rocks different colors. You know... the white rocks you started with in SW, or the grey rocks (or brown wood) you started with in FW. After several months or years, the rocks become a variety of different colors and textures. Why? Because the periphyton that has grown on it is a mix of different living things, of different colors, and thicknesses. And the important part is: It is LIVING.

That's right: The colored stuff that has coated your rocks is all living organisms. Sponges, microbes, algae, cyano, biofilms, and of course coralline. After all, "peri" means "around the outside", and "phyto" means "plant". Ever slipped in a slippery puddle? That's probably periphyton that made it slippery. It's a very thin coating on the rocks, sometimes paper thin.

There is a lot of photosynthetic organisms in periphyton, and this of course means that they need light; but they need nutrients too (ammonia, nitrate, phosphate). And as you might figure, they will be on the lighted portions of the rocks. And they will grow to intercept food particles in the water, based on the water flow. Just think about how sponges orient their holes for water flow; the micro sponges in periphyton do it too but on a tiny scale.

What about under the rocks, in the dark areas? Well these periphyton don't get light, so they are primarily filter feeders. So they REALLY grow and position themselves to be able to intercept food particles. And they don't really need to fight off algae, because algae does not grow in the dark, so they have no need for anti-algae tactics like plants in the light have.

Reef studies have show that at certain depths, more of the filtering of the water comes from periphyton and benthic algae than comes from the phytoplankton which filters the deeper water. And in streams, almost all the filtering is done by periphyton. So, what you have on rocks that are "mature" or "established" is a well-developed layer of periphyton; and all the things that comes from it.

This is why mandarin fish can eat directly off the rocks of an "established" tank (tons of pods grow in the periphyton), but not on the rocks of a new tank. Or why some animals can lay their eggs on established rocks, but not new ones. Or why established tanks seem to "yo-yo" less than new ones. Even tangs can eat periphyton directly when it's thick enough. Yes periphyton can also develop on the sand, but since the sand is moved around so much, the periphyton does not get visible like it does on rocks. So thick periphyton on established rocks is your friend. And totally natural too. Keep in mind though I'm not referring to nuisance algae on rocks; I'm only referring to the very-thin layer of coloring that coats the rocks.

But what happens when you "scrape the stuff off your rocks"? Well you remove some of the periphyton, which means you remove some of your natural filter and food producer. What if you take the rocks out and scrub them? Well now you not only remove more of your natural filter and food producer, but the air is going to kill even more of the microscopic sponges in it. And what if you bleach the rocks? Well, goodbye all filtering and food producing for another year. It's an instant reduction of the natural filtering that the periphyton was providing.

However, what if you just re-arrange the rocks? Well, some of the periphyton that was in the light, now will be in the dark; so this part will die. And some of the periphyton that was in the dark will now be in the light, so it will not be able to out-compete photosynthetic growth and thus will be covered and die too. And even if the light stays the same, the direction and amount of water flow (and food particles) will change; sponges that were oriented to get food particles from one direction will now starve. So since the light and food supply is cut off, the filtering that the periphyton was providing stops almost immediately from just re-arranging.

Starvation takes a little longer. The periphyton organisms won't die immediately, since they have some energy saved up; but instead, they will wither away over several weeks. So on top of the instant reduction in filtering that you get my just moving the rocks, you get a somewhat stretched-out period of nutrients going back into the water. And after all this, it takes another long period of time for the periphyton to build up to the levels it was at before. Even changing the direction of a powerhead will affect the food particle supply in the area it used to be pointed at.

So a good idea is to try to keep everything the same. Pick your lighting, flow, layout, and try to never move or change anything. It's a different way of thinking, but you should have a stronger natural filter and food producer because of it.

 

[nanolicious]

It's been a while since I checked in. Unfortunately I ended up breaking that tank down. It was a mess and I didn't want to lose my zoas. So here goes....I bought more live rock, dipped all my corals and moved them into a standard 10g. I bought a par 38 full spectrum bulb from Coral Compulsion. Everything made the move really well and things were going along great, looking fabulous. Then it started. A little hair algae here and there, what looks like bryopsis here and there, and now once again, it's taking over. Even after dipping in Coralrx flatworms managed to survive and now they are all over the tank.
I don't want to give up, but I am terribly discouraged. That is really interesting info, thanks for posting that write up. My main question at this point based on that is what other types of nutrient export are there for such a small tank? Skimmer? More water changes? I know it's always best to get to the root of the issue, but I'm considering raising the Mag. level to kill the algae. I have a Salifert mag test and when I checked last Friday it was only at 1260ppm. Anyone here ever used Kent's tech M to treat it? As you can see from the pic it's choking out my zoas.

 

[reefingnoob]

Did I miss it or you have not posted nitrate and phosphate test result yet? If you haven't post those first

 

[tigerdragon]

What cuc do have? Snails?hermits?lawnmower blenny?

 

[SantaMonica]

There is no "root of the issue". There is only a nutrient cycle, which has a nutrient budget. This is the basis for all aquatic systems, and is similar to physics where there is no energy created or destroyed; energy only changes form.

Transferring the new rock into your tank killed the periphyton on it, and much of the life in it, and that dead material is now dying off and feeding algae. All you can do now is wait, and don't move or change anything, and give the periphyton a year to regrow. This will solve most of your problems.

Until then: Yes waterchanges remove a small amount of nutrients, for one day. Skimmers don't remove any nutrients at all; only food particles, which you want to feed your corals, small fish, and periphyton.

GFO, pellets, macros, and scrubbers do remove nutrients, continuously. And they leave food particles in the water. I of course, prefer scrubbers.

You pic shows dino's which will go away first, if you increase export. I don't know about your system, but if you have a sump, then building a simple scrubber will fix the dino's with a month or two.

 

[bobstir]

i didn't see hermit crabs listed as part of your clean up crew. I'd suggest getting a bunch of red knuckle hermit crabs... and a lawnmower blenny as tigerdragon hinted at.

 

[nanolicious]

I don't have reliable test kits for nitrate and phosphate yet, only API. My cuc is 2 nassarius snails and a turbo. I realize now that I am starting from scratch, and I regret the decision to start over. I'm ok with leaving everything alone...but I'm worried about the algae smothering my zoas. I am running fresh chemipure elite and phosguard in an aquaclear 50 hob. I do not have a sump.
This lr came from a trusted lfs. He's had it in a tank for well over a year. How can it not be somewhat established?

 

[nanolicious]

I can see how moving the rock and placing it in a different position in a different tank could cause some die off, but surely not completely wipe out all of it.

 

[SantaMonica]

Not all of it, but a large part of the periphyton since it's on the surface.

Anyway, these spikes usually last 4 to 6 weeks, so if you can keep your zoo's protected that long, it should clean up a lot.

 

[nanolicious]

Just noticed an explosion of flatworms all over my lr and sand. Apparently the Coral rx dip didn't get them all, or either their eggs. This is turning into a nightmare. I thought I'd gotten rid of them because I haven't seen a single one since moving everything over weeks ago. Now they are literally everywhere!

 

[FinzAquatics]

you got any direct / indirect sunlight hitting the tank? that will promote both your BGA and BHA.

 

[nanolicious]

No. The tank is in my classroom on a counter that is opposite from the windows. It does get some sunlight, but it's nearly 50' from the windows.

 

[nanolicious]

No. The tank is in my classroom on a counter that is opposite from the windows. It does get some sunlight, but it's nearly 50' from the windows.

Guess that's a yes then.

 

[brandon429]

Nano there is no harm to your clowns or snails doing the treatment

if the test spot was ran a few days ago as we talked, by now it would be 100% bare. you can be free of algae regardless of light or nutrient levels. i sure am

we def wouldnt take down the tank and start over. going eutrophic is natural, it happens on real reefs when you just take away fish and grazers. it is light and nutrient independent in many natural cases as well

its quite easy to never have green hair algae at any stage, I opt for that. I dont advocate my method over another, many ways to skin a cat. what I do know about my peroxide method is that its predictable almost to the hour as to how long it will take to clean this tank up. retreatments get fewer in time, everything you do in a reef is a retreatment. even ATS pads have to be cleaned, GFO has to be changed out, detritus has to be removed, its all cyclic. I just hate to see wrecked tanks and a bunch of unknown timelines and fixes, when cleaning this up yesterweek would take 24 hours.

using periphyton to suppress algae growth or compete against it is fine, im simply offering a known cleaning method with plenty of following just like alt methods. if it were me, id use peroxide to clean up this tank and periphyton, if you wish, farmed on rocks or on algal turf scrubber sheets, to prevent its return. then if that fails, go ahead and zap again, simply disallowing any algae at any time.

 

[nanolicious]

I dipped a few of my zoas in a 50/50 peroxide dip and it did kill the hair algae and bryopsis. The zoas pulled through just fine. I'm moving the tank back home and I'll be able to get to even more of it. wjI will spot treat the large rocks that have patches of algae as well as any that appears once I have everything placed back in the tank.