Tankenstein - Weeble's 150 Tall

Defective_Weeble

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Hi there! I'm Brad and I'm salty. I started my saltwater addiction a bit ago with a 2 gallon pico, then moved to a 20 long and I'm currently running a 40 breeder with the previous 20 long as a sump. I've been fighting off the itch for a 300 for some time simply because of the setup costs. So when a local guy had a 150 up for free because of a broken bottom pane, I had to jump at the chance.

First thing's first - A huge thanks to my MTRC and TSRC folks. The shared knowledge from local groups is positively invaluable.

That said, let's get started:

The Tank

IMG_1458.jpg


There's some work to be done, but I'm a DIY kinda guy so I'm looking forward to it. First step is to strip off the bottom frame and remove the broken pane. I got a quote from GlassCages on a pane of 1/2 inch replacement so I'll be picking it up soon. For what it's worth, GlassCages (local to me) was far and away cheaper than anyone else. I'll be using the AGA silicone just for safety's sake as, from my understanding, it has better bonding properties than standard silicone. It's a negligible price difference, so I'll err on the side of caution.

The tank is drilled with 3 1.5 inch holes in the back. The previous setup was dual drain, coast-to-coast overflow with the center as a return. I'll be changing that over to a BeanAnimal setup then drilling two 3/4-inch returns. I'm torn as to the return setup. Part of me wants to build a new C2C using glass (the current setup uses plexi, with the 3/4 return drilled through it) and run the 3/4 return over the top of it. But the other side of me wants to run a long center overflow with the returns in the corners. I'll likely go the 2nd route rather than having the Loc-Line ramping up above the overflow.

The Stand

The previous owner has a rolled steel stand available for next to nothing. I like this idea a lot, but I also like the idea of building a bigger stand to allow for equipment. The steel stand is the 48x24 dimensions of the tank, which doesn't leave a lot of room for reactors, the ATO reservoir, etc. I'm tossing up the idea of simply building two small additions to the stand on the left and right sides but at that point I could just as easily build the single-piece stand that I want.

Equipment

  • Return Pump: Jebao DC12000, to a manifold which will drive my reactor and some flow to the refugium.
  • Powerheads: Likely MP40, but I'm holding my breath that the Maxspect Riptide will be out before I'm ready to get this thing wet.
  • Skimmer: Eshopps S200. I'm running this now. With the stock that I'm planning, I think it will be fine on the 150
  • Heat: 2x Jager 150w
  • Reactor: Synergy SMR-2500 running Ecobak biopellets (bottom plate removed to assist with better tumble)
  • ATO: Presently autotopoff.com float switch, but will likely move over to a Tunze Osmolator soon.
  • Lighting: Completely undecided. I'm a T5 fan but I also can't deny what I've seen from Kessil and Radion LEDs. I won't be running MHL due to heat and electric costs. What I do know is that I want something that can be controlled via an Apex.
  • Sump: Undecided. Considering picking up a used acrylic, but the 30 inch length means it's smaller than I want. I might modify a 40 breeder instead.
Livestock

SPS dominant, LPS present. I've also wanted a clam for a while, so that will help to dictate the lighting decision. I'm also planning on a carpet anemone in addition to my current RBTA.

Current stock is very light, and will probably only be moderate in the 150. Single clownfish, single firefish, mandarin, 3 chromis. I do know that I want to add a kole tang and a foxface. Beyond that I'm undecided.

Current Projects

First thing's first - I'm moving my RODI to the garage and setting up a water station. After that, it's on to replacing the bottom pane of the 150. This is going to be fun :D

IMG_1457.jpg
 
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bknapp

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And so it begins.... Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
 
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Let's talk lighting. While part of me really wants to go LED (Kessil or Radion), I just can't deny my love of T5. But the question is whether or not T5 will get a high enough light level at the sand bed on this 31 inch deep tank to keep clams and carpet anemones happy. I'm not overly concerned about sticks or BTAs. I'll mount sticks up high anyway, and my BTAs will go where they want.

I'm considering a 6-bulb T5. Probably a Tek. I'll likely add a BuildMyLED strip to the back (or maybe both front and back) to get some shimmer as the lack of shimmer on my current T5 system drives me a little insane. The Tek is about $300. Though it's not made anymore, you can still get it from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Tek-Light-T5-Fixture-Only-Bulb/dp/B0001XA6ZK

The other alternative of course is MHL + T5. But with my math I just can't justify it. Though the electric bill would only be about $20 difference each month, buying 2x 250w bulbs every 9 months at $100 each is a bit crazy. Add in 2 or 4 T5s to that yearly and you're dropping yet another bill so it's close to $600 per year to run and keep good bulbs. I can't fathom that when I've seen amazing results in T5 tanks.

So give me thoughts. I know that Dowtish will say to put on my big girl panties and go MHL. What say the rest of you?
 

bknapp

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I was in the same boat as you when I started my 110 which was 30" tall. I ended up going with metal halide (don't forget your big girl panties) and I had good success with zoas and assorted LPS on the sand bed. And you can find good MH bulbs for around $50 ( I use Pheonix 14K, DE.) And to keep bulb prices down stagger them out, buy one every month and replace them one at a time. (Bulb prices don't bother me, there are 11 bulbs over my tank, 3-250 watt MH 8-T5. ) If you go T5 I would think 8 would be the magic number over that tank.

And I'm not a big fan of only LED's over a tank, I would mix in T5 with them. Personally the only LED unit I would consider (if I were switching to l LED) would be the Ecotech Radion. The shimmer from the Kessils make me sick.
 

greg0385

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So you'd think 250 watt x2 + 2 T5? Maybe run straight actinic in the T5?

It all depends on the rockscape, remember i started off with 250watt MH and 4 t5s but because i had a short rockscape, most of my corals suffered from the lack of light.

In my opinion, if your going to use MH, then you need 400watts if you are planning to keep much of anything that needs strong lights.

Dowtish's tank is shorter than yours and he is running 400watts. Just saying

8 bulb t5, LED/t5 combo, 400watt MH would be the 3 options i think you would be happy with.


Enjoy the tank :)
 
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Thanks Greg! It's a lot of fun planning stuff. But yeah, the lighting has me a little stumped still.

I'm planning to recreate this rockscape:

IMAG0498_zps299e5cde.jpg


I'll have plenty of height, but I still am concerned about clams and carpet anemones. Seems like 400w would probably be a safer bet.
 

kingrl2

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Nice looking sump, looks allot like the of the Trigger Ruby Red sumps.
 
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No dedicated refugium section, but I'm OK with that. NextReef makes an accessory refugium that suction cups to the side and doesn't take up much space. Since all I really use mine for is pod production anyway, I'd rather have more open space for my skimmer and reactor.
 

iiluisii

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Thanks Greg! It's a lot of fun planning stuff. But yeah, the lighting has me a little stumped still.

I'm planning to recreate this rockscape:

IMAG0498_zps299e5cde.jpg

I'll have plenty of height, but I still am concerned about clams and carpet anemones. Seems like 400w would probably be a safer bet.

I'm using leds for my new build but you can beat 400 watt metal halide.
 
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The more I think about the plumbing on this tank, the more tempted I am to run an external Bean. I'd keep the C2C overflow, but I'd have it only extend off the back wall about 2 inches. The existing holes will exit to an external plumbing box kind of like a ghost overflow setup (which is based on BA's overflow anyway).

I'm trying to think of any potential disadvantages to this and have come up with a couple:

1 - I suppose I'll have to run gutter guard or something in the overflow to keep fish/critters from being swept to the external box since it will just be open holes. This might add noise to the system, but it should be minimal.

2 - I'm adding in another potential point of failure with hanging a box on the outside of the tank. There are stress points and all I'm doing is connecting an open-front box to the aquarium via silicone. I could overcome this one by having a box that only has the top open, then connecting the box to the tank via bulkheads. I'd just have to drill the holes into the box myself and cut down the bulkhead threads.

My purpose in taking this route is to save back-to-front room from the c2c overflow. There are already going to be lighting challenges and the further that the overflow sticks out into the tank the harder it is to light around. So if I can have it only extend 2 inches or so I'll be in pretty good shape.

The final decision (if I go this route) is whether I have someone cut the glass for me and assemble it myself, or if I hit up Synergy to have them build it out of acrylic. My brain says Synergy. My wallet will probably say glass :)
 

mcarroll

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Lighting decision made. But I'm keeping it under wraps for now. Because reasons :)

Gu10 LEDs are probably the most inexpensive DIY option - certainly the easiest to install - and they would cover the depth you have. With LED it's a question of optics and mounting height, then just making sure you have the power to achieve around 15,000-60,000 lux at the surface.

With halide and T5 there's a bit less flexibility and the capabilities of the various reflectors you'll have acces to aren't nearly as cut and dried as the lenses you'd deal with in LED - which is why things are usually generalized to terms of watts and # of bulbs for halide and T5 - but the same concepts still apply. Mounting height and reflectors dictate wasted light, reach oflight and other important things not often discussed. With the right reflectors, you could get away easily with 250w. You might require 400w depending on other factors such as above.

Just $0.02, even though I'm too late...discussion was just warming up! ;)

-Matt
 
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Well I suppose that I could say "decision partially made". Right now I know what I'm buying, but it's still a couple of months away so there's plenty of time to change my mind ;)
 

mcarroll

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A deep-tank lighting anecdote that occurred to me: One tank I used to help out with on maintenance was a four foot deep reef lit by a nice 4-tube T5 system. I wouldn't have built it this way, so it was interesting to see -- it was growing awesome softies and LPS even on the bottom.

Which makes me say more watts may not be needed, and is a huge wast every day if what you get is too much. You would still burn (e.g.) 400 watts per bulb, but end up mounting them higher to compensate, which also wastes more light over the side of the tank, lighting up the room and growing algae on the glass. My GU10 tank literally takes months to grow enough algae (either hard or green) to be worth scraping just because the light is designed pretty precisely for the tank and does not light up the glass or the room. My with the Razor LED fixture, which has much wider lenses (being a commercial fixture it has to be designed generically without a tank in mind), casts some light into the room and grows algae that needs scraping every few weeks. Both tanks share the same water.

All that just to say:
  • consider GU10 LED's if DIY is a possibility. I think you'd like them as much or more than a halide system. (I switched to this from a Radium system.)
  • if you go halide, try hard to make it a 250 watt-based system. Reflectors that do a good job casting the light down vs spreading it should do the trick. Lumen Bright Mini Pendant is one example. If you can find someone already running a rig like you'd want - that's the best. Sample their setup with a lux meter at the water surface to see where they are in terms of intensty. If they're beyond 60,000 lux or so, their system is overbuilt and you can easily drop a bulb size. Depending on your plans, you probably want no less than 15,000-20,000 lux at the edges.
  • if you go T5, a six bulb system with excellent reflectors and excellent cooling should light your tank pretty nicely. Again, if you can find someone running a similar rig to sample, that's the best. Substandard reflectors and/or cooling can make a pretty huge difference in a T5 system...including reducing bulb life. Same desired lux ranges apply, but obviously you're going to see more uniform lux readings across a T5 tank.
  • If you could hold performance of cooling and reflectors standard across all T5 and halide lights, you'd have to spend a similar amount of watts in T5 or halide lighting to get similar performance. Even with the vagaries that different reflectors and ballasts brings, the watts required should be comparable within a pretty negligible degree.
  • You will, however, save at least 20%-30% in power by going LED...potentially a lot more if you're comparing a wide-spreading T5 or halide system to an LED system with tight lenses. My 36"x12" reef was lit by a ~40 watt GU10 setup, for example. (30º lenses being the key.)
Just more food for thought. (I'm really here to see the bottom-glass get replaced. ...and be jealous that glass-cages is local.) :)

-Matt
 

mcarroll

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[...]2 - I'm adding in another potential point of failure with hanging a box on the outside of the tank. There are stress points and all I'm doing is connecting an open-front box to the aquarium via silicone. I could overcome this one by having a box that only has the top open, then connecting the box to the tank via bulkheads. I'd just have to drill the holes into the box myself and cut down the bulkhead threads.

Silicone in some triangle bracing under the box instead?

-Matt
 

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