Another Question- Sump tank pump

[nest9]

Excuse me if I get some terminology incorrcet but I am learning. So I have the sump tank set up for overflow in the cabinet. The tank has 3 separate sections : Far left is where the skimmer is set up, return or overflow hose also drains here, nothing in the middle, and to the far right I have a pump? I filled this section up to the blue tape line as previous owner had marked. When I plug the pump up, it sucks the water up and transfers it to the far left section via the overflow hose? You are probably saying well duh thats what it's made for or maybe you are saying that's not what it's made for. If this is what it is made for, then there is no way I can keep it plugged up all the time as it keeps sucking the water down to a very low level causing the pump to make a funny noise like it should when there is no more water to suction. Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah there is also a small fan in this area.


Thanks.

[JSB]

The return pump is typically going to "return" your water to the tank. With how I understand your description, water should come in on the left, and leave on the right back to the tank. A pic would be extremely helpful in diagnosis.

[beaslbob]

If your pump runs dry before the tank drains back to the sump then you simply have to add more (salt) water.

I presume your overflow does work and what is happening is the tank water level goes up and the sump pump runs dry before the overflow kicks in and returns water back to the (left hadn side of ) the sump.

You also need to insure that undeer power out the overflow runs down and stop the water returning to the sump and that there is not a large revers siphon where water returns from the pumped return lines. the return lines need to 1) have thier outlets above the display water lines or 2) small holes drilled pointing at the display water and above the water line to break siphon during opwer out conditions.

my .02

[beaslbob]

another thought

the blue line for water level was probably for when the system is running. So you need to add water until it is running with water to that level.

my .02

[nest9]

I will post pictures tomorrow as that will be my off day. I did fill the area with the pump up to the blue line as previously marked and when I plugged the pump up, it took the water level in that area down below the pump. I added more water to that area, and it did the same thing. It appears that it is either pushing the water back up into the tank and causing an overflow which in turn is causing the water to be returned to the left side of the sump tank where the overflow hose is. Do i need to keep this pump plugged in at all times? If so, I guess I will just keep adding salt water until the level does not drop?

Thanks.

[JSB]

Based on Beaslbob's response above, he appeared to be correct in understanding your description. But to answer your question, yes. With the return pump running, the sump level should be consistent and the overflow spilling over back to the sump. You have to make sure that your normal operating level (blue line, in your case?) leaves enough room in your sump so that when you turn off the return pump it does not overflow the sump into the floor. Using the blue line as your reference, you will need to add fresh water occasionally so that the level remains fairly consistent. That will keep the salinity in your tank consistent as evaporation occurs. (As evap does not remove salt, only water, as the water volume goes down, salinity goes up).

[dictionaaron]

To JSB's point evaporation will probably be considerable in a tank that size, youll need a good supply of ro/di or whatever you are using for water. DIY auto top offs can be made for around 30 bucks which personally i could never live without..dont know what the rules are about posting links but if you search "how a sump works" in google the first result is a phenominal resource. i went there a lot when building/designing my setup. even has illustrations and what not.

[Tomoko Schum]

It's hard to say without looking at the construction of the sump. A picture will definitely help in this case.

You need to keep the return pump completely submerged at all time. If your pump is emptying the last section, your pump is either too powerful for your setup or you don't have enough water in your system. Or, your last section may be a refugium instead of a return pump section.

Please post a picture of your sump so we can help you to figure out your problem.

In the mean time, here's a helpful site that talks about how a sump works:

Melevsreef.com - What is a Sump?

Here's a well written three part primer on a sump:

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part I by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part II by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part III by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com

Since you need to find out more about reef keeping in general, I recommend that you read some articles on old issues of reefkeeping online magazines. Here is the index for the free online magazine:

2002 Monthly Index - Reefkeeping Magazine
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/past3.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/past4.php

You can pick and choose the topics you would like to explore. These old issues are full of great articles that even seasoned reefers will find helpful.
Another great free online magazine is Advanced Aquariust Online Magazine: Latest Articles — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
Try older issues as well since there are a lot of articles geared toward the beginners in the old issues.

[dictionaaron]

melevs was the site i was referring to. excellent sump source. the animated gif is nice

[nest9]

So I was close with almost having it right but not close enough. As some of you suggested, I did not have enough water in the overall process. I was simply adding RO water to the sump area instead of the tank itself. So indeed, the pump was taking the water through the process but there was not enough water in the process to allow the water to make its way back to the pump area of the sump tank. End result, I was about 10 gallons shy of having enough water to make it work properly. Rookie mistake but a good learning experience. Thank you all for your input and help. It is always greatly appreciated.

[Tomoko Schum]

I was simply adding RO water to the sump area instead of the tank itself.

You are supposed to add RO water into the sump instead of the display tank so you won't shock the tank inhabitants.
I am glad that you have gotten the sump water level adjusted. Good luck.

[JSB]

If this tank is populated, and you are adding 10+ gallons of RO/DI water to the sump, you have probably affected the salinity to a large degree, unless this is a very big tank. Make it a point to check the salinity, and strive to keep it stable. 1.024 to 1.026 is generally the target.

[nest9]

Just to clarify, I had the water at about 76-78 degrees before I added it so hopefully it wouldnt be too big of a difference. Also, the tank is 175G and after checking this morning, I had a reading of 1.026. Next time, I will add to the sump.

Thanks.

[Tomoko Schum]

Once you become comfortable with your tanks, I suggest that you look into an auto top off device. You can make a DIY auto top off device very inexpensively or you can get a ready made system from autotopoff.com or a simple kit from Aqua Hub.

I have a Rubbermaid container next to my sump with an inexpensive aqua lifter vacuum pump. I have the pump connected to a single float switch which I installed in the sump return pump section. When the sump water level goes down below the float switch, the pump is turned on and delivers water very slowly into the sump. Since the control range of the float switch is small, my pump turns on a few times a day to deliver water slowly. Once the water level gets back to the level preset by the float switch, the pump cuts off. My reservoir is big enough that I only add RODI water to it once a week. It's been very nice to have to keep the salinity level stable.