When you use heat pack

oupulino · Sep 22, 2012

If you ship overnight you have to add heat pack to shipping box ?
Which temperature has to be outside to add heat pack.I found on the web that if is above 80 F you don't have to but if is below 80 F you have to ad heat pack to keep the zoas worm is that correct ??????????
Let me know ,please

BillyC · Sep 22, 2012

If your box is going to be in colder temperatures (I'd say below 60ish) I would add a 24 hour heat pack. Wrap it in some newspaper so it's not touching the coral's bag directly.

oupulino · Sep 23, 2012

Thanks so 60 and below I have to add heat pack if is over 60 no need just isolated box right ?
I'm asking because I receive the package yesterday from the member and the box wasn't isolated just regular box with bubble wraps and the water was very cold when I got it ,shipping was overnight.But the zoas are still close they not open yet .What I should do I think they got to cold in shipping the guy did not put any isolation and heat pack in the box

kmaintl · Sep 23, 2012

Zoas are pretty durable. I've actually ship them in just a wet paper towel by priority mail and they have no problem arriving alive. I would have insolated the box, that is almost standard practice. Too cold is better than too hot. Give it some time, I've sure they will come out of the shock from shipping in a few more days.

oupulino · Sep 23, 2012

I hope so to they are pricey paly Utter Chaos

Ninjapotamus · Sep 23, 2012

heat packs are an absolute waste of money. Seal up your box, put it in the fridge/freezer for a few hours and then open it and see for your self. they run out of oxygen extremely fast( a couple of hours) and basically do nothing at that point. I have done tons of experiments with air holes/supplementing oxygen etc but the result is the same.

best bet is a well insulated box and early AM delivery.

The only reason I ever include a heatpack is because people have come to expect them and think they are important/effective. They are neither!

BillyC · Sep 23, 2012

Ninjapotamus said:
heat packs are an absolute waste of money. Seal up your box, put it in the fridge/freezer for a few hours and then open it and see for your self. they run out of oxygen extremely fast( a couple of hours) and basically do nothing at that point. I have done tons of experiments with air holes/supplementing oxygen etc but the result is the same.

best bet is a well insulated box and early AM delivery.

The only reason I ever include a heatpack is because people have come to expect them and think they are important/effective.

Interesting... What heat pack are you using?

mfinn · Sep 23, 2012

I've shipped dozens of times and had many, many shipments come to me with heat packs that were still working, as long as air gets in.
They do work.

oupulino · Sep 23, 2012

I agree with you I got 4 shipments before when I receive the box they were still warm and zoas open in 30 min after I put them in my tank.I think what's matter at this point is how serious you are and knowledge you have about shipping corals.Because is very easy to waste 200 $ overnight with someone who doesn't have a clue how to ship corals.

mfinn said:
I've shipped dozens of times and had many, many shipments come to me with heat packs that were still working, as long as air gets in.
They do work.

joker295 · Sep 23, 2012

heat packs work depends on how you put them in the box... I usually tape them to the lid of the box and poke some holes behind the pack so it gets some Air and continues to burn

oupulino · Sep 23, 2012

here are same pictures of melting utter Chaos.
It took me like 4 months to find this Utter Chaos i spend 200 $ for nothing guys that is so sad

robert · Sep 23, 2012

mfinn said:
I've shipped dozens of times and had many, many shipments come to me with heat packs that were still working, as long as air gets in.
They do work.

I done many many experiments - heat packs do absolutely nothing to extend the shipping window. In a well sealed box they exhaust the available O2 in short order and go cold. Now when you get the box and open it up and air rushes in making it appear that the heat-pack is still working - and of course you ASSUME it was that way all along - WRONG!

I have tried numerous packing configurations - including holes and mounting methods as described by Joker...The net effect is that the added ventilation necessary to keep the heat pack functioning results in MORE heat loss than the pack can compensate for.

Insulation - Insulation - Insulation - I can't say it enough - it is purely a function of insulation and ambient temperature which determines the temp your corals will arrive at.

mfinn · Sep 23, 2012

I've done it too and I say heat packs do work.
You are right, in a sealed box the heat packs do run out of o2 and die.
As long as air can get in, the heat packs keep working.

When you open a sealed box with a dead heat pack, it doesn't instantly get hot. That's nuts.

I'm done with this one.

robert · Sep 23, 2012

mfinn said:
I've done it too and I say heat packs do work.
You are right, in a sealed box the heat packs do run out of o2 and die.
As long as air can get in, the heat packs keep working.

When you open a sealed box with a dead heat pack, it doesn't instantly get hot. That's nuts.

I'm done with this one.

Sorry to put you off on this one.

I've done the math and run the experiments - adding enough ventilation to keep the heat packs running results in convective loss in excess of the gain from the packs - its that simple - air holes don't help - they hurt.

Now for the period of time that the heat pack are active - this is usually only during the initial packing and package drop off. These usually take place in warm facilities. The time when you need the heat - when the shipment is out for delivery - the heat packs are doing nothing - (unless you have ventilation holes - in which case the ventilation is losing more heat through convective heat loss than the packs provide.)

I would like to correct my statement above - I said:
Insulation - Insulation - Insulation - I can't say it enough - it is purely a function of insulation and ambient temperature which determines the temp your corals will arrive at.

I should have said:
Insulation - Insulation - Insulation - I can't say it enough - it is purely a function of insulation, time and ambient temperature which determines the temp your corals will arrive at.

Sure heat packs work - at best they add heat to your package when you really don't need it and only enough heat to extend the corals in a safe temperature zone when out for delivery - by minutes - maybe - certainly not hours.

Insulate well - ship so as to minimize time on the truck - pick-up is better.

solitude127 · Sep 25, 2012

Don't all the overnight packages fly and I'm sure in the plane at 30000 ft(or what ever altitude they fly at), it's got to be pretty cold. I doubt these packages travel in a climate controlled area of the plane

kmaintl · Sep 30, 2012

I've shipped a pair of clownfishes overseas and there is no way that they could receive overnight, it's a 2 to 3 day trip. BTW, I don't use oygenated bags, just the Kordon breathable bags, so I use cut styrofoam sheets and line a double-wall cardboard box. I have to allow exchange of air or the clowns will suffocate. I use heatwave 72hr+ heatpaks and because my box is not air tight, the clowns arrive warm and still alive in beathable bags that have no air in the bags. I rarely use heatpaks, but on a trip this long... I do and it works.