Thoughts on Garage sellers.... Could it be the death to many LFS?

[Davinci]

Today I wanted to discuss a problem that I see here in phoenix az. I am not sure if the rest of the country is experiencing this and wanted to hear your thoughts on this issue. Today I went checked on craigslist and I was impressed at the amount of people selling corals. In economics that is a good thing because there is a greater competition therefore decreasing the price and increasing choice for customers. Then here is where the myriad of problems are created. the garage sellers do not have the overhead that the LFS have. With suppliers not requiring a storefront for these sellers to get wholesale, they can just undercut the lfs. In economic talks, why would you get hermit crabs at the LFS for .75 when you can get them at the garage for .50? You will seem dumb if you choose the LFS. We live in a price driven society where price really triumphs loyalties. How can stores stay open??? In the past month I have seen about 3 stores that are on the verge of closing down. Why cant garage sellers just do things right and open up a legitimate store front and pay the taxes where they are due and see if they can keep the same low prices.

 

[TriggerThis]

Are the garage people actually trying to make their sales a business or is it just people trying to scrape up some extra cash by selling corals out of their own tanks? Bc by that definition, everyone on here that has ever sold anything to anyone is technically "a garagesaler"
And your whole argument is toast when you add the internet into the equation.
It's the ultimate slap in the face to brick and mortar stores

 

[Funlad3]

The majority of people selling out of their houses grow their own corals, bought from LFSs or other hobbyists, and resell their frags. The small amount of sellers that are able to buy from wholesalers are required by law to operate as a business and must provide, by the rules of all wholesalers and again by law, a valid business license to even spend a cent. The majority of home sellers are also unable to provide enough of a supply to really knock LFSs out of contention.

Viva la Reefer!

 

[RichieT]

Today I wanted to discuss a problem that I see here in phoenix az. I am not sure if the rest of the country is experiencing this and wanted to hear your thoughts on this issue. Today I went checked on craigslist and I was impressed at the amount of people selling corals. In economics that is a good thing because there is a greater competition therefore decreasing the price and increasing choice for customers. Then here is where the myriad of problems are created. the garage sellers do not have the overhead that the LFS have. With suppliers not requiring a storefront for these sellers to get wholesale, they can just undercut the lfs. In economic talks, why would you get hermit crabs at the LFS for .75 when you can get them at the garage for .50? You will seem dumb if you choose the LFS. We live in a price driven society where price really triumphs loyalties. How can stores stay open??? In the past month I have seen about 3 stores that are on the verge of closing down. Why cant garage sellers just do things right and open up a legitimate store front and pay the taxes where they are due and see if they can keep the same low prices.

I don't understand why you think opening up a store front is the right thing to do. If three LFS are going out of business it seems like a bad idea. Getting a business license is fairly cheap and very little of the overhead (rent, power, water etc) that a LFS incurs is needed to run a legitimate business out of a garage.

It's a tough business today with the hobby expanding and hobbyists seeing $$$ in every frag they buy. There is bound to be some evolution needed on the storefront's side to be able to cope with the newer situation.

I think in the end it will drive the hobby into more peoples lives rather than less

 

[Davinci]

Richie, so you think that having your business out of a garage is the right way to go?

 

[rock_lobster]

I dont really think its a business if your selling your own propagated corals out of your display tank. However if you are running an ocean chopshop out of your garage then by all means it should be taxed and treated like a business. Having a business has its advantages you have marketing, a brand, public awareness not much overhead, larger customer base = cheaper bulk imports. This is why you dont see too many local garage sales out competing walmart.

Richie, so you think that having your business out of a garage is the right way to go?

 

[RichieT]

Richie, so you think that having your business out of a garage is the right way to go?

I think it really depends on what your goal is. For a large majority of start up type businesses it is the least capital intense way to get started. I just see it as a negative thing to introduce competition into the market place.

 

[RichieT]

I dont really think its a business if your selling your own propagated corals out of your display tank. However if you are running an ocean chopshop out of your garage then by all means it should be taxed and treated like a business. Having a business has its advantages you have marketing, a brand, public awareness not much overhead, larger customer base = cheaper bulk imports. This is why you dont see too many local garage sales out competing walmart.

I agree with this 100%

 

[nova65ss]

Most businesses start in a garage.....

 

[Grissino]

Capitalism! It's a dog-eat-dog world.

 

[Wrx5803]

I don't feel these garage businesses are only selling there own coral. It is crazy easy to get whole sale accounts. I don't think it is 100% bad to do it. Most businesses start out that way.but you should make it legit. Pay for inurance and sales tax. Have your inspections done. Its pretty cool to have a frag tank your sell to buddies,online or at a local swap but don't sit there and have accounts to under sell a fish store and wonder why they are all having a hard time staying open. I support my lfs and refuse to buy from someone trying to run a business from the there living room unless they are atleast paying there dues.

 

[MrDJeep123]

Why can't people leave others alone? Why can't people let others succeed where some have failed? If the store is failing and Mr. GarageSeller isn't, who cares? He's doing something right that the business failed to do. I get the sense you're a little jaded because some Jo Schmo bought corals for less than you did. It's the same with yardselling. Should I be required to buy a business license because people buy from me?

New reefers are required to buy a license and take a four hour education class. Now people can't sell things on the side. What next? The law changed so we can marry our fish? *sigh* Enough is enough people. Live and let live, I say.

 

[Small triggers]

It's also a personal choice for someone to go and purchase from a 'garage seller'
I NEVER look on Craigslist for livestock...
Heck I don't even look for dry goods, I choose to ask my local club members first and then if nothing I buy new, usually from a vendor or LFS....

One of my favorite LFS' started out selling out of their basement, but they were trying to see if it was worth it to make this a large full time business move. most garage sellers do it for a few hours a week, maybe only on weekends. They may make some money...but unless they have time to be dedicate to the process and try and turn it into a full time gig, they aren't making money hand over fist....this is how many companies started...apple for one...heck even some of our own vendors like avast I believe started in someone's garage...you can't fault someone for wanting to start something that could do well....

 

[Wrx5803]

I don't care if people buy from garage sellers and get stuff cheaper then me. And the reason for success no overhead no sales tax no insurance and this list goes on. Of course selling stuf out of your house on the side won't fail. You ready have a job and pay your bills.

 

[Dashiki]

Like it has already been said. Most businesses start in a garage. If they are successful the will move to another facility. Different field but I own a landscape construction company. I started it out of my house. My overhead was low so my prices reflected that. My business grew and I bought a shop to keep all my trucks and equipment. My overhead is larger now and my prices reflect that.

Why are you mad at someone who is just doing something they love or trying to make a buck? Because some other guy spends thousands more a month to haves storefront? If the garage guy can make a living out of it why does he need a store? How do you know he doesn't have a bus. License or pay insurance? And why do you care? The amount of taxes if any that persons would pay is minimal. And most likely in a tax sense run at a loss and not need to pay taxes anyway.

Seems more like a jealousy post than anything else. If the hobby was setup where we bought dry goods online and corals locally what's wrong with that? It's cheap to ship dry goods and expensive to ship live coral. Sounds like a win win to me.

If the garage guy is successful he will turn into an lfs if not he is most likely just supporting himself in the hobby.

 

[Wrx5803]

I am not saying all are bad but I do know a few that post locally as if they are a full blown store and have regular people come weekly. And also brags about clearing 1-2k a week. That is the type of person I am refering to. Heck I sell coral on the side I grow out to hepp keep my system going. With our society brick and mortar are a dying kind and whole sale people are handing accounts out like candy. And its not just for reefing. I am taling abouy everything from a bow company to sporting goods and on.

 

[CountrySideCoral]

Most of you guys posting are acting like you are that living room/garage/basement "store". If you sell coral here or there out of your tank to get a new piece of equipment or a cherry coral you have been eyeing up at your LFS that is cool and makes the hobby fun. Sadly I know a few guys who have chosen to buy a business license just to get whole sale accounts and sell straight out of their living room, garage, or basement. Yes they have little overhead so they can keep prices lower but if they aren't reporting sales, paying sales tax to the state, paying for insurance, paying for a separate rent/mortgage how could a LFS compete. They literally order from wholesale, chop it up and put a tag on it. If his illegal business puts down my local brick and mortar LFS I'm not going to be happy. That way of "business" should come with a made in China sticker, they take shortcuts in order to make a quick buck and jeopardize true American business. I can honestly say I have not purchased from that kind of "business" or even online websites because it is hurting the local stores who know your tank and do what they can to help you and keep your business.

- end rant

 

[AZDesertRat]

Phoenix has had an active reef scene for decades, I have been reefkeeping for over 25 years locally myself and have also been active in the reef clubs and frag groups that barter, trade and sell corals. The good LFS have all survived even with this going on, most of those who have closed their doors were managed poorly and the coral trade had nothing to do with it. Hard core reefers are a tight knit group and we are particular about what corals we buy and sell and what we place in our systems. I will only buy coral from two or three of the LFS in the valley while I will and do buy hardgoods and foods from all of them which is where they make their money.

 

[Chameleon]

Store front = easier access = more sales. Garage = less overhead = cheaper prices. I think the two even out fairly well. Store fronts are great for the new hobbyist that don't know about all the garage shops anyway. In truth much of the business comes from the less experienced hobbyist who are more likely to purchase from a brick and mortar store anyway. More experienced hobbyist tend to have less purchase needs when it comes to livestock, and when they do need something they often have a lead on where to get it (fellow hobbyist). Like mentioned brick and mortar stores will always have the upperhand when it comes to drygoods as well. Most garage shops can't compete with store front or online for drygoods and therefore don't carry them, but this is a source of lots of revenue for the brick and mortar store. Well run and managed brick and mortar stores will stay open. Sometimes garage dealers will get to the point where they are clearing a lot of money and make the step to the next level with a brick and mortar store. Others realize this will never be feasible for them and will remain garage dealers. To me all aspects seem to me to benefit the hobby. The garage dealer will take the one on one time with an experienced hobbyist to get that piece he really wants while the brick and mortar store front will aid in drawing more people into the hobby, but may not be as capable at specifically catering to the more experienced group.

 

[ohio reefer]

Someone near me sells out of their basement. Full blown business type set up. He has a vendors license and is a business. He just chooses to run it out of his house. He also services tanks. He pays taxes for this. The reason it is in his house is because he primarily sells online. He has the nicest coral I've ever seen and is my one stop shop for rock, coral, fish, and equipment. I fully support these type of sellers. He does everything a business does, with the exception of owning a store front. I like to support places like his shop because it's the same as supporting a local mom and pap shop. And my money stays in the community. I have also seen others who run out of their garage with 7-8 100 gallon tanks full of coral, and they brag about how much cash they bring in and how they've found every loop hole. I do not support these "businesses".