Reef Myths: I : cyanide caught fish

[Neptunes Cove]

I have about 20 of these I would like to share, but this one came up recently so:

I haven't realy thought about It In years, and you used to hear about it alot,
but recently a few customers that had unexpected fish loss
(from other fish stores) and came in for advice saying:
"I think that they were CYANIDE caught fish"-"because they died unexpectedly, or without signs"...
" and my waters good"...
-Im sure you may have heard of this practice in the hobby, especially if you have been doing this for years...
and I may be opening a can of whatever here... but, I want to assure you that: it never happened...

cyanide was used to "catch" food fish, along with dynamiting the reefs to stun and kill -again "food fish" once upon a time.
governments got them to stop doing these adverse practices back in the early 80s, noting that it ruined the reefs the fish live on,
and therefore was unsustainable; meaning, that the fish wouldn't live on dead reef areas, and the fish would be gone from the area...
and as for the cyanide, it was unhealthy for anyone to eat these fish, and so they came up with a type of " litmus paper" test.
where you could swipe a fishes slime coat with the paper tab, and detect it. Anyone caught doing this after I think 1991
was fined or jailed for it (or worse). and this was only for "food fish"
-as far as fragile reef fishes- it was NEVER done...
some thoughts:
1)can you imagine trying to create or import a poison like cyanide in a post 9/11 world?!?!
2) when they kill a prisoner with cyanide- or even if someone is exposed to it- they die almost instantly,
-they don't give the death row inmate a gassing, and 2 weeks later he dies... (its in seconds)
-even these "food fish" would die instantly, and float to the surface to be collected-not wait for 2 weeks!
3)there is no way that frail reef fish were slightly stunned with cyanide, they recovered, got shipped here from Indonesia
-waited around for 3 to 14 days later, and die instantly...
4) there is no special Kung- Fu "death punch" of cyanide that kills you in 3 days, 6 days, 2 weeks ect...

it never happened.. (atleast with any success- I mean when they mass killed the "food fish" Im sure all fish in the "kill zone" were effected...)
(but none made it on a boat still alive...)

 

[ritter6788]

Subscribed. I've always heard this was a common collection practice in some areas.

 

[NanaReefer]

I beg to differ with you. Cyanide was used to collect ornamental fish. Especially in the Philippines. I'm providing the facts. Where are yours?

Books- Please read page 369 especially.

Marine Ornamental Species: Collection, Culture and Conservation
edited by James C. Cato, Christopher L. Brown

More Cyanide fishing facts.
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-mag...uarium/august-2008/cyanide-aquarium-fish.aspx

 

[Ike]

-Im sure you may have heard of this practice in the hobby, especially if you have been doing this for years...
and I may be opening a can of whatever here... but, I want to assure you that: it never happened...

cyanide was used to "catch" food fish, along with dynamiting the reefs to stun and kill -again "food fish" once upon a time.
governments got them to stop doing these adverse practices back in the early 80s, noting that it ruined the reefs the fish live on,
and therefore was unsustainable; meaning, that the fish wouldn't live on dead reef areas, and the fish would be gone from the area...
and as for the cyanide, it was unhealthy for anyone to eat these fish, and so they came up with a type of " litmus paper" test.
where you could swipe a fishes slime coat with the paper tab, and detect it. Anyone caught doing this after I think 1991
was fined or jailed for it (or worse). and this was only for "food fish"
-as far as fragile reef fishes- it was NEVER done...
some thoughts:
1)can you imagine trying to create or import a poison like cyanide in a post 9/11 world?!?!
2) when they kill a prisoner with cyanide- or even if someone is exposed to it- they die almost instantly,
-they don't give the death row inmate a gassing, and 2 weeks later he dies... (its in seconds)
-even these "food fish" would die instantly, and float to the surface to be collected-not wait for 2 weeks!
3)there is no way that frail reef fish were slightly stunned with cyanide, they recovered, got shipped here from Indonesia
-waited around for 3 to 14 days later, and die instantly...
4) there is no special Kung- Fu "death punch" of cyanide that kills you in 3 days, 6 days, 2 weeks ect...

it never happened.. (atleast with any success- I mean when they mass killed the "food fish" Im sure all fish in the "kill zone" were effected...)
(but none made it on a boat still alive...)

Complete and total nonsense. Your post is so wildly inaccurate that it should be removed. I'm a little frightened that you own a fish store... All evidence suggests that cyanide fishing came into existence in the first place solely because of the ornamental fish trade.

 

[NanaReefer]

Complete and total nonsense. Your post is so wildly inaccurate that it should be removed. I'm a little frightened that you own a fish store... All evidence suggests that cyanide fishing came into existence in the first place solely because of the ornamental fish trade.

He owns an LFS? Oh my!!

 

[Ike]

Here's just one of many items that you can read to see just how wrong you are.

http://www.unep.org/pdf/from_ocean_to_aquarium_report.pdf

 

[Clayalaleona]

Lol well this went in a different direction than what I was expecting

 

[Ike]

He owns an LFS? Oh my!!

Might just be an online business, but still scary...

 

[Shep]

No need to insult the OP, I highly doubt if he is right or wrong that it would impact his/her ability to run a reputable and legit store or be knowledgeable about reef keeping in general.

 

[stunreefer]

I beg to differ with you. Cyanide was used to collect ornamental fish. Especially in the Philippines. I'm providing the facts. Where are yours?

Books- Please read page 369 especially.

Marine Ornamental Species: Collection, Culture and Conservation
edited by James C. Cato, Christopher L. Brown

More Cyanide fishing facts.
Cyanide Fishing Makes a Comeback

:thumb:

Complete and total nonsense. Your post is so wildly inaccurate that it should be removed. I'm a little frightened that you own a fish store... All evidence suggests that cyanide fishing came into existence in the first place solely because of the ornamental fish trade.

:thumb:

I avoid all fishes from certain regions that I know still use cyanide as a means of catching ornamental fishes. Unfortunately many developing nations do not know the damage they're doing, but it's easily avoidable by hobbyists by purchasing fishes from retailers who do their homework and know the specific location their fishes are being collected (by hand!).

Fishes [generally] do not die instantly from cyanide, rather they become stunned, and seemingly come-to when placed in clean SW back on the boat. This is why collectors still use it... it looks like the fish are knocked out and revived instantly in clean SW. What they don't know is they've completely devastated their kidney's, which a retailer would see if they're doing a proper QT/conditioning period (most do not) or a hobbyist would see as the fishes do just die over time.

Corals also do not die instantly from cyanide, visually anyways. Collectors would note that the coral seems to look 'worse' (dying/dead) the next time they collect the same area, and eventually never return to that area since reef fishes will rarely inhabit a dead reef for long.

 

[Ike]

No need to insult the OP, I highly doubt if he is right or wrong that it would impact his/her ability to run a reputable and legit store or be knowledgeable about reef keeping in general.

1.) He's wrong!

2.) He should know better if he's in the trade

 

[stunreefer]

No need to insult the OP, I highly doubt if he is right or wrong that it would impact his/her ability to run a reputable and legit store or be knowledgeable about reef keeping in general.

Seriously? I don't see anything above posted as a direct insult. The insult would be to the animals imported by any store that does not have a sound knowledge of how these live animals are collected.

Unfortunately many "legit" stores operate like this. There's a big reason our hobby is on the forefront of environmentalists chopping block, and a little research into how your animals are sourced will go a long, long way. Forget about the bottom line, these are live animals! If they were "fuzzy" and "cute" a vast majority of stores would be shut down faster than you could blink an eye, and hobbyists and store owners would be jailed for animal cruelty.

 

[melypr1985]

I'm really disappointed some of you guys. This is a generally nice place to post opinions and make suggestions and chat about these things. I happen to know Neptune's Cove (a REAL STORE front where I live) and Bill. He is a great guy and LFS owner, also a supporter to our local reef club (dallasMAS). He has been, and still is, a great resource of beautiful and healthy coral and fish along with great information and help with equipment, livestock ect. He has never EVER had a bad word to say to me, or anybody I know, about people who ask seemingly silly questions (people like me) or make an incorrect statement. He is always trying to help educate fellow hobbyist and learn for himself too as the hobby progresses.

I know nothing about this subject in particular so I wont comment on that. BUT I WILL stand up for a friend of the club and somebody I KNOW doesn't disserve the rude comments and condemnations! You stop it and keep it friendly!

 

[Ike]

I'm really disappointed some of you guys. This is a generally nice place to post opinions and make suggestions and chat about these things. I happen to know Neptune's Cove (a REAL STORE front where I live) and Bill. He is a great guy and LFS owner, also a supporter to our local reef club (dallasMAS). He has been, and still is, a great resource of beautiful and healthy coral and fish along with great information and help with equipment, livestock ect. He has never EVER had a bad word to say to me, or anybody I know, about people who ask seemingly silly questions (people like me) or make an incorrect statement. He is always trying to help educate fellow hobbyist and learn for himself too as the hobby progresses.

I know nothing about this subject in particular so I wont comment on that. BUT I WILL stand up for a friend of the club and somebody I KNOW doesn't disserve the rude comments and condemnations! You stop it and keep it friendly!

I appreciate your support for you friend, and hopefully this was just a simple ignorance on his part and that his other involvement in this hobby isn't as misguided. I hope you can also appreciate that I love this hobby and have been heavily involved in it on a few levels for nearly 30 years. This type of misinformation is detrimental to the hobby I love, and in this case, and in the interest of others that might read this thread, I think it's very necessary to state strongly just how wrong Neptune's Cove is.

 

[melypr1985]

I get what your saying, and I appreciate that info given needs to be correct. What I'm objecting to is the way the objection is layed out. I wasn't just talking to you. There were several people actually accusing Bill of being a bad shop owner and suggesting that he is stupid and unable to run a healthy and successful fish store. My anger is toward that kind of behavior. Bill can stand up for his knowledge on this subject on his own, I know nothing about cyanide collections, but I just had to step in on the way these corrections were being stated. There is no reason to get nasty or rude.

 

[Aloha Corals]

(Self Edited Post)

 

[hybridazn]

I had hopes for this thread, and then I read the first post. I really don't want to break the post down piece by piece because frankly I don't have the time to so so. But to claim that nobody uses/used cyanide to capture ornamental fish is absurd. It has been documented over the years that certain areas still use this practice and that fish to this day still die from signs of cyanide poisoning. As for your point on the "they use cyanide on prisoners and they don't die 2 weeks later" is because the divers use a heavily diluted solution of cyanide to just stun the fish.

I'm not trying to insult anyone but if a little research would have been done by the OP this thread would never have been posted.

 

[TankRazr]

The irony of the original post is that depending on where the fish are coming from, ie which wholesalers or trans shippers are supplying the store, it is actually quite possible that sodium cyanide caught fish have passed through their doors.

Have a read.

From what I recall being told about the practice, typically only a very small drop approximately the size of a pin head is employed, the fish are stunned for collection, but will only typically live for up to six months.

TR

 

[Ike]

I get what your saying, and I appreciate that info given needs to be correct. What I'm objecting to is the way the objection is layed out. I wasn't just talking to you. There were several people actually accusing Bill of being a bad shop owner and suggesting that he is stupid and unable to run a healthy and successful fish store. My anger is toward that kind of behavior. Bill can stand up for his knowledge on this subject on his own, I know nothing about cyanide collections, but I just had to step in on the way these corrections were being stated. There is no reason to get nasty or rude.

I think you're reading into things a little... I don't see the insults flying like some are insinuating.

Given how controversial his statement is, I'm surprised it's been as tame as it has. My only point was that it's scary that someone with such a misguided perspective on this is guiding others in the hobby. Perhaps not the best analogy (it's what popped into my head), but it would be along the lines of someone being a doctor and then stating that smoking cigarettes is bad for you is a myth.

 

[revhtree]

I'm going to close this. I normally wouldn't so soon but I think it best. Opinions were made and facts were presented. The case was made. I don't think anyone meant ill will but I think it's best to close it.