Triton Testing Poll: Tin vs PVC

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A number of people have recently been getting elevated results for Tin (Sn) in their Triton testing.

One hypothesis that was suggested is that tin in rigid PVC is leaking into the systems.

So I set up this poll to see if there is a correlation.

So please vote if you have information that may allow us to possibly identify a source of the excessive tin.

TIA

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, the idea on the pipe age is that old pipes may have leached all the tin they are going to. It is just a hypothesis.

 

[TheReefKeeper]

I'll have my results back soon

I used that red pvc so I guess we will see if I too have a high Sn reading just my couplings are white pvc. I'm sure their is a food grade tube I think it's the clear stuff

I'll contact the mfg and see if the red stuff has tin as a binder can't remeber where it came from been a while

 

[gregoryleonard]

I have rigid PVC pipes less than 3 years old and had elevated Sn (tin) of 10.07 ug/l on a target of 0.10 ug/l.
Is your hypothesis that rigid PVC pipes over 3 years old have leached all the Sn from them and are less likely to cause the elevated Sn readings?

 

[ewelch]

Great hypothesis ! Interested in how this turns out .

I have high levels of Tin . My system was setup in the last month with all ridgid plumbing .

 

[TheReefKeeper]

Check it out
Organotin Stabilisers - PVC

 

[gregoryleonard]

so if my home plumbing (which is PVC and CPVC) but is 15+ years old, could Sn be leaching into the Ro/Di water being made for everything I use in the aquarium reef? Or does the RO/DI 6 stage filter I use likely remove any Sn in the water. Other than water changes, what can be used to get the Sn out of the reef (if anything)? Does Macro Algae absorb Sn? I have read that Macro Algae can absorb some heavy metals??
I also would like to know if anyone knows what symptoms elevated Sn produces in SPS/LPS/softies? This has raised more questions for me now that I know what my levels are due to the Triton test.

 

[Grant]

My Sn is 31.14 ug/l and I use rigid PVC.

 

[ChristopherKriens]

My tin levels were normal and I run PVC for both return and drain.

 

[Grant]

My screws, nuts and cabinet hinges are pretty rusted up. Although they don't hang over the sump tank or ATO, maybe they could also be a contributing factor to Sn levels. Going to replace parts and cover to prevent it from rusting in future.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I just voted in my poll:

I have no elevated tin and have some rigid PVC pipes, but all are more than than 3 years old

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have rigid PVC pipes less than 3 years old and had elevated Sn (tin) of 10.07 ug/l on a target of 0.10 ug/l.
Is your hypothesis that rigid PVC pipes over 3 years old have leached all the Sn from them and are less likely to cause the elevated Sn readings?

That is the hypothesis, yes.

It is known that tin is in some PVC, but I would also expect it is very hard for it to come out since molecules moving through PVC is difficult.

FWIW, Ehsan of Triton says he thinks it is mostly from hose clamps and similar metal parts, which makes sense.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

so if my home plumbing (which is PVC and CPVC) but is 15+ years old, could Sn be leaching into the Ro/Di water being made for everything I use in the aquarium reef? Or does the RO/DI 6 stage filter I use likely remove any Sn in the water. Other than water changes, what can be used to get the Sn out of the reef (if anything)? Does Macro Algae absorb Sn? I have read that Macro Algae can absorb some heavy metals??
I also would like to know if anyone knows what symptoms elevated Sn produces in SPS/LPS/softies? This has raised more questions for me now that I know what my levels are due to the Triton test.

Most PVC is drain pipes, not potable water, but in any case, if it is upstream of the RO/DI, it shouldn't be a concern as it should be removed.

I do not know what effect tin toxicity shows up as, but it is a fairly toxic ion in some forms.

Unfortunately, the Triton test doesn't tell us anything about what form it is in (bound to organics, etc.).

Organotin compounds (such as tributyltin), however are used to prevent biofouling of boat bottoms, so that's a reason to think about tin and marine inverts.

 

[TheReefKeeper]

Just posted my results Randy no Tin I was expecting a lil honestly after seeing so many with SI leaves high.

 

[BNUTTHEHUT]

That is the hypothesis, yes.

It is known that tin is in some PVC, but I would also expect it is very hard for it to come out since molecules moving through PVC is difficult.

FWIW, Ehsan of Triton says he thinks it is mostly from hose clamps and similar metal parts, which makes sense.

I use hose clamps in my tank and my tin was 0. I would be curious to see what part of the country, age of the house, location of water supply(ie river, lake, well, dam ext) and RODI unit the people are using. Towns with a water supply that was installed pre 1942ish could have tin in the water. Or if the tank is made of float glass.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use hose clamps in my tank and my tin was 0. I would be curious to see what part of the country, age of the house, location of water supply(ie river, lake, well, dam ext) and RODI unit the people are using. Towns with a water supply that was installed pre 1942ish could have tin in the water. Or if the tank is made of float glass.

My house was built in 1909, I get water from a surface reservoir through many miles of old pipes, and I didn't have any detectable tin.

I have heard some people talk about the glass issue, but I haven't followed up on it. I don't know anything about what kind of glass was used for my tank.

 

[gregoryleonard]

Most PVC is drain pipes, not potable water, but in any case, if it is upstream of the RO/DI, it shouldn't be a concern as it should be removed.

I do not know what effect tin toxicity shows up as, but it is a fairly toxic ion in some forms.

Unfortunately, the Triton test doesn't tell us anything about what form it is in (bound to organics, etc.).

Organotin compounds (such as tributyltin), however are used to prevent biofouling of boat bottoms, so that's a reason to think about tin and marine inverts.

Randy,
Will any of these products remove Tin to your knowledge?
Macro algae? Will it consume Heavy metals (Sn)? I have read it will.
Pure pads
Marine bio pads
Kardon Metal rid
Thanks

 

[BNUTTHEHUT]

My house was built in 1909, I get water from a surface reservoir through many miles of old pipes, and I didn't have any detectable tin.

I have heard some people talk about the glass issue, but I haven't followed up on it. I don't know anything about what kind of glass was used for my tank.

Interesting... I thought for sure old pipes. If Sn was the only out of range heavy metal, I wonder if the testing process produced the Sn?:spy::spy::spy:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,
Will any of these products remove Tin to your knowledge?
Macro algae? Will it consume Heavy metals (Sn)? I have read it will.
Pure pads
Marine bio pads
Kardon Metal rid
Thanks

To be honest, I don't know what will remove tin, and am not even sure what form the tin is in to figure it out.

Organisms such as Caulerpa and Xenia will take up tin, as in this study:

Down the Drain, Exports from Reef Aquaria by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

Let's calculate how much:

Let's say you have 100 gallons (378 liters) of water volume and 10 ug/L of tin. That's 3.8 mg of tin.

Caulerpa contains about 0.7 mg/kg of tin.

So to remove half of that tin would require 2.7 kilograms (wet weight) of caulerpa.

That's a lot of macroalgae, but it may be useful if you export a lot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting... I thought for sure old pipes. If Sn was the only out of range heavy metal, I wonder if the testing process produced the Sn?:spy::spy::spy:

Possible, but unlikely, IMO. Only some of the Triton samples show any tin, and they've had years to work out such kinks.