From success to total failure.

Ron Popeil

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i use to only have success with reef keeping. corals grew. fish flourished. things were easy and maintaining a reef aquarium was never hard. i maintained 120 gallons, 60 gallons, 300 gallons....i could do it all, and well.

until i moved to florida.

now even the simplest issues are impossible to defeat. im running out of ideas and patience. i have a level of algae that does not seem to subside in spite of everything i throw at it.

i sold mostly everything i had and moved to florida and set up a 150 gallon aquarium. i used my old rock which was kept moist during transport. i run a single 250w SE 20k halide and 3 AI Sols that typically run at 100%. photoperiod is about 12 hours. the tank was fine for nearly 7 months. algae free. then without anything changing, algae erupted and never went away.

i feed a miniscule amount of pelleted foods every two days.

my parameters:
temp 80
ph 8.1
alk 10
ca 450
mg 1300
sal 1.024
no3 0
po4 0.00

the algae isnt bryopsis. its not derbesia. by all appearance its just regular green hair algae. but its unstoppable. ive used turbo snails. astrea snails. urchins. tangs. rabbitfish. seahares. nothing keeps up with it. i used red sea po4-x, which only seemed to exponentially increase the issue. i tried a four day dark treatment.

i run an RODI unit with floss, catalytic carbon, two DI and a 100gpd membrane. tds going in is approximately 230 ppm. coming out typically 0.
i run biopellets.
i have a large skimmer.
i run several cups of gfo in a reactor.
i do 45 gallon water changes every month.
i test phosphate with a milwaukie colorimeter.
i tested my RODI product water and my new salt mix water stored in a brute garbage can for phosphates...both were zero.

i understand that i should expect to see zero phosphates because the algae is using it up. but where is it coming from? i used to dump huge amounts of food in my tanks and do water changes every two to three months....and never have algae issues.
if the rock absorbed the phosphate, how much longer for it to deplete itself?

should i add on additional po4 reactors? should i add more biopellets? should i remove all my sand and go bare bottom? should i do something with hydrogen peroxide? should i do a longer blackout period? should i add more canisters to my RODI unit? should i dose vodka? should i cook my rock? should i go freshwater?

any ideas will be sincerely and greatly appreciated. i feel like i am an experienced hobbyist but this has been quite humbling. i realize the hair algae problem is probably the most commonly posted issue, but i feel like i have tried nearly everything and im not seeing any results. its heartbreaking and embarrassing.


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS OR IDEAS.

as an example of what i am capable of:

my old 60 gallon.


my old 300 gallon
 

TurboReef

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MG is a little low. I've heard of some success stories with nuisance algaes and dosing Mg. Tank looks really nice though
 

jcdeng

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You can dose H2O2 into your tank, that really does kill of GHA. The methods you employ are to use up po4 and nitrates in the water column, but I think the issue is you rock leeching nutrients out, which the GHA will grab first cuz its roots are right there. saturated rocks can take a year to leech out all the nutrients inside (given that you dont add more to let it soak up).

I would lower the light output and photo period, and use a pair of tweezers and pull all the HA from the rock surface (as best as you can), then dose H2O2. Or, if you don't already have one, add a fuge to the system, at least 1/2 size of your DT and put a strong light on it (Kessil amazon sun is a good choice), put chaeto in and if possible pull one removable rock piece and put it in your fuge, run the light at 100% for 20 hrs per day. and let all the HA grow there.

Also if possible instead of a big WC once a month, try 1/2 of that amount but twice a month or evern 1/4 and once a week. during WC use a small powerhead and blow at the nooks and crannies on the rocks, after that start the siphoning.

hope you win the battle.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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RP
We are compiling peroxide before and afters (pics) for a nice sticky thread coming up for the nanos forum

If you try other methods and don't like them consider the h202 mentioned your tank is prime for it. None of that sps w be affected but you need to underwater spot dose it not broadcast dose

Get creative, nothing beats diabetic syringe and needle for slow spot injection.

I don't even see nuisance algae but if you have patches a few mls per time, each spot, slow spot injected with the pumps off for a few mins to slow dispersal off the targets really works

Cleaner shrimp can die from that but it takes larger doses you have dilution in your favor. The small doses for spots done spread out over time won't kill anything other than localized fireworms if applicable. I wouldn't strip po4 any further this tank is not eutrophic.

Either get lucky with a grazer or get fast with some bubbly it'll clean it right up.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Can you post a close up of the bad areas

So far everything looks great


The reason peroxide is best to try is because you can do a tiny test spot before moving on

We have pics of tanks like yours before and after treatment they look nearly identical in stocking.
 
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mike007

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Are you adding any type of coral foods? Any other additives besides ca.,alk.,and mag? I have cut out all these trace supplements and such and reduced my water changes . I believe that most salt mixes contain lots of nutrients that can fuel algae growth especially If you are adding addional elements. So far this working for me.
 
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Ron Popeil

Ron Popeil

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remember, the images i posted above are just my previous tanks before i moved, just to show that i feel i am a capable reef enthusiast. below is my current aquarium as of august after being set up in april. i do not dose anything other than magnesium.



by october this is what happened.

 

Triggreef

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MG is a little low. I've heard of some success stories with nuisance algaes and dosing Mg. Tank looks really nice though

Kent tech m mg only, as it is thought to have some sort of unknown chemical that works. raising mg with other additives has not worked for many and then worked after with tech m. I've done a ton of reading on that.

Brandon is the man when it comes to h2o2 for sure. I haven't done much but with spot treatments (out of the tank, small pieces) with good luck.


photoperiod is about 12 hours.

That is your problem (or most of it).

Give the algae better parameters to grow somewhere else, whether it is a sump, refugium, or turf scrubber. I firmly believe that is the key to being algae free in your display. My po4 has not been under .21 in over a year and usually much higher than that. Nitrates also are around 10. No nuisance algae aside from some bubble algae here and there but not really any of that in my display either. And I have very few snails. I do have 6 tangs but I don't think they do an awful lot for algae control. They are very well fed.
 

alan.reef

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don't give up.. the hair algea will gone after your rock leach out all the po4. remove it slowly with GFO, seahare and water change. I use 8month to fight my hair algae in 65g mixed reef.
 
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Ron Popeil

Ron Popeil

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chloramine is a concern. the catalytic carbon in my rodi unit is supposed to capture that before it hits the membrane, or am i mistaken?

does chloramine encourage algae growth?
 

reefaddictionrx

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I agree with Alan, don't give up. I have moved two tanks (a 72g and a 120g) and have had similar hair algae fights after the move each time, but it has always gone away with time. My last move had a terrible cyano problem that made we want to tear everything down. Tried dark photoperiods, new bulbs, etc and nothing fixed it but time and getting a refugium set up.

I do think it likely has something to do with PO4/nutrient load leaching from live rock, or adding it to the tank in frozen foods/salt mixes/or contaminated water. It sure doesn't sound like you are overfeeding. But the pellet food does have a phosphate load.

I would recommend dropping the photoperiod closer to 7-8hrs. I also agree with Triggreef that ideally you need a place for nuissance algae to bloom - my refugium has a 24hr light cycle that typically starts the bloom there and its much easier to harvest there out of the macroalgae than it is off the DT liverock or sandbed. Do you have a fuge area set up?
 

oceanreefer

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Kinda of looks like Cladophora. Ive battled it a few times but most common algae eaters won't touch it.
 

brandon429

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Gfo works as well as it does its thing, grazers etc all have a track record. So does ats systems
Pick a method and those who run it well w chime in


One reason peroxide is nice is the speed back to clean
And the repository of before and after pics






Do emersed test first, instead of draining take out a rock and hit with liquid peroxide to chart a kill time for this type and density




Hit some top areas for the part you were able to drain access let sit cooking two mins then refill. Watch what happens in three days

The bottom parts can be done under water spot injections but this first run is the shocker

Natural reefs can get that choked when grazers aren't preset its not always about perfect water. Its about preemptive action the first tuft.


If someone wanted a non peroxide option, I'd still be removing all that by hand before treatment.



RTN can be set in with algal incursion and tissue erosion there is every indicator to strip this tank of primary production and feed the tank well/increase export and maintain for three months before assessment


One thing peroxide does shockingly well documented across all peroxide threads is cause grazing to go into overdrive. Universally, grazers are drawn to the cellular aberrations present after a cook google it and see.

I'd put a week of work into exportive, repetitive drains and treats and then I'd put in fifteen margarita snails and get the dslr ready.

Using peroxide isn't the most common option other methods should be considered first. But if a fallback plan is needed search for some of the bigger threads on it to see
 
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brandon429

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image.jpg
image.jpg
From
Sublime1996525

This is like your invasive species but a smaller tank

This took less elbow grease. Don't think you get the same grow back in a a month, you don't its downscaled. No eutrophication fix is one round and your first run will clear huge amounts and speed up recovery time. Your rock does not have to be acid etched or anything else.


Lower areas can be pinned off with Saran Wrap underwater sections and peroxide injected underneath. This capture system holds contact extension just long enough to cause many awesome after pics



Eutrophic reefs corrected by grazer restoration projects are fine years later. We can speed that up a chem cheat ok perox rant off
 
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