Vodka Dosing, worked for me, how about you?

[lps1212]

Glad too hear success stories I have started vodka doseing backup again and its been a lil over 3 weeks now so I figure in about a month I should start seein results I hear it usually takes around 2 months for results to be noticeable

[Paul_N]

What difference did you notice with vinegar??? I never played with vinegar or sugar just straight vodka myself...

The thought process behind the v/s/v (vodka/sugar/vinegar) mixture is that the different carbon sources will feed different strains of bacteria. I tried it and saw no noticeable improvement over just vodka and even had issue with using sugar. It's the same reason we use mb7 along with vodka, just diversity in bacteria. I just always saw better results using vodka with a bacteria source like mb7 or Biodigest for the diversity.

[Troylee]

pretty much my thoughts paul..... i use mb7/vodka and see great results lol....

[kingfisherfleshy]

I have to get some MB7...

My vodka experience hasnt done much other than proliferate a ton of black bacteria all over my tank...its everywhere...but its not too bad visually because its mostly just a dusting, or concentrated in certain areas, and the black blends in pretty well with the other colors on the rock.

Anyone else having that? I am also dosing a lot and still not getting cyano or lowered nitrates...but I have been going up slow because I didnt want to completely eliminate nitrates, just lower them.

We will see where this takes me...it is pure hell on the filter socks that is for sure. My .02...dont ever dose vodka anywhere you dont want a covering of bacteria.

I also had an outbreak of ich after I started dosing which I attributed to an increased h2o column bacteria count causing my fish some distress...but it also could have been the fish that was shipped to me without any mention that I was getting a fish, or that it had been mailed...which resulted in me not being able to QT it...but that is another story, and usually I wouldnt have had any issues with that.

[Reggie]

I've been dosing vodka for more than a year now. I've also been dosing MB7, then later on Special Blend. What I've been constantly experiencing is Cyano, which keeps appearing on the sand bed and rocks, even if the Nitrates and Phosphates are zero.

Over a month ago, I got intrigued by Red Sea's NO3:PO4-X, so I ordered one. I know the smell of vodka but this one, while it's also clear, smells like some chemical with a hint of vinegar. I have been dosing it for more than a month now (same dosing amount as vodka). It was about the third week when suddenly I noticed my sand becoming really white. Now, Cyano is almost gone, except on some ridges. I haven't been dosing bacteria (MB7 or Special Blend) since Nitrates and Phosphates are kept to the minimum -- which means that the bacteria culture is thriving.

Anyway, NO3:PO4-X is not as cheap as vodka (about $20/liter) but hey, since it's working well for me, I'm not looking on going back to vodka anytime soon.

I hope this helps.

[Gillguy]

Kingfisherfleshy, if you stick with it, it should pay off. As I mentioned before though, your skimmer will start to remove things you have never seen. I don't know what kind of skimmer you have but if you don't have a really strong skimmer, dosing with vodka should not be attempted. If you do have a good skimmer and the problems continue then maybe vodka dosing was not meant for your system. Remember, in this hobby, everyone has different livestock, get their water from different places, use different foods, and have different live rock. When I started this thread I was just curious who was using it and if it worked for them. I hope it works for you too.

[SDguy]

The thought process behind the v/s/v (vodka/sugar/vinegar) mixture is that the different carbon sources will feed different strains of bacteria. I tried it and saw no noticeable improvement over just vodka and even had issue with using sugar. It's the same reason we use mb7 along with vodka, just diversity in bacteria. I just always saw better results using vodka with a bacteria source like mb7 or Biodigest for the diversity.

I've never really bought into any of that. What's the goal of the diversity? I suppose if maybe you are hoping to feed various organisms in your tank with the bacteria?

My only reason to grow bacteria is to have it take up the N & P, and then pull it out with my skimmer. If I have a single, water-borne strain that does that, and outgrows all other strains, then that's actually ideal.

[Paul_N]

I've never really bought into any of that. What's the goal of the diversity? I suppose if maybe you are hoping to feed various organisms in your tank with the bacteria?

My only reason to grow bacteria is to have it take up the N & P, and then pull it out with my skimmer. If I have a single, water-borne strain that does that, and outgrows all other strains, then that's actually ideal.

I'm no expert on bacteria by any stretch of the imagination..... But most of the stuff I read and threads I followed when I got started said that this " If I have a single, water-borne strain that does that, and outgrows all other strains, then that's actually ideal." is what you don't want. I don't remember the chemistry behind it, maybe someone with a better understanding can chime in.
I buy into it because for me I need to experiment on my own and when I did there was a huge difference between using just vodka and vodka and mb7. I dosed for over 2 years and started out with just vodka. I feed an insane amount of food to my tank and my phosphates are in the .03-.05 range unless I push it even further and feed too much it will rise to .07 or .09 and all I have to do is cut back feeding for it to drop. I also have not used GFO or carbon for over a year and a half. Right now I use Ecobak and mb7 and the results have continued. So my filtration besides rock and a small amount of sand is a skimmer, pellets,mb7 and nothing else.

[SDguy]

I'm no expert on bacteria by any stretch of the imagination..... But most of the stuff I read and threads I followed when I got started said that this " If I have a single, water-borne strain that does that, and outgrows all other strains, then that's actually ideal." is what you don't want. I don't remember the chemistry behind it, maybe someone with a better understanding can chime in.

Agreed, I too heard/read all those same threads. I just never heard a good reason for it.

[ficklefins]

My dosing never makes it to the tank

J/K. I tried this on a 30g and it worked well. I knew something was going right when I went from cleaning the glass every week to every other week or even third week.

[Tricky]

Why non-flavored vodka? Too much sugar?

I really hate vodka, but friends left some behind - flavored of course. Is it worth a try?

[atlorange]

I have been dosing for 2 or 3 months in my little 21 gallon with great success. I use 7 drops of vodka a day and 10 drops of mb7 a week. All algae that was hanging out in my low flow, lit back chambers is gone. Better color in SPS.

[capt85]

Why non-flavored vodka? Too much sugar?

I really hate vodka, but friends left some behind - flavored of course. Is it worth a try?

No. You use vodka because it has no additional additives. Flavored vodka has additives which would not be safe to add to your tank.

[BigFeesh]

How much would be a good starting dose for a 29 gallon BC?

[Tab28]

This thread has my attention a cheaper than Phos remover. I have seen the .5 ml for my 125 as mentioned on earlier post but what is mb7?

[Viva'sReef]

MB7 is Brightwells aquatics Micro Bacter 7.

[Tab28]

Thanks now will look that one up

[Gillguy]

BigFeesh, in the first page of this thread I posted a link to two articles that explain in detail about dosing. Here is a portion of the article that explains how to determine your water volume and dosing.


Dosing Instructions

These instructions will focus solely on using 80 proof vodka (40%; ethanol by volume). They do not pertain to other organic carbon sources that are also currently used, including common table sugar (sucrose) and vinegar (sodium acetate). The dosing instructions below were as dictated by J Kokott and have been used successfully by us.

1. Test your systems NO3 and PO4 levels. Do not dose if you do not know this! We recommend good test kits that have some low level of sensitivity. This will be important later on to determining a maintenance dose regimen. During the initial dosing test often and adjust dosing parameters as needed as each tanks requirement will be different. Dosing accuracy is of the utmost importance. A graduated measurement tool such as a syringe will come in handy. A journal of additions and test kit measurements is recommended.
2. Estimate your Net Water Volume (NWV) of your system. (Aquarium volume + sump + refugium + reactor volumes) (live rock displacement). It can be difficult to accurately measure the amount of water being displaced by the live rock. If unsure of the volume of live rock we suggest taking 30% off your display tanks Gross Water Volume. For vodka dosing there is absolutely no harm in underestimating the Net Water Volume and is recommended. As an example, let us assume that your setup contains 100 Net Gallons.
   
   
3. The starting dosage is 0.1ml of vodka per 25 gallons (~100 liters) NWV daily continued for three days. For 100 Net Gallons, your dosage would be 0.4ml daily during this period. It has been suggested to cut the daily dosage in half and dose twice daily for more consistency.
4. Days 4-7, double the daily dosage to 0.2ml of vodka per 25 gallons NWV. Your example dosage would be 0.8ml daily during this period.
5. Each subsequent week add an additional 0.5ml of vodka regardless of aquaria volume. At this point your example dosage during week two would be 1.3ml daily. If you do not see nutrient levels decrease during this week, the following week add an additional 0.5ml for a daily dosage of 1.8ml daily.
6. When your NO3 and PO4 levels start to drop maintain the current dose. For example, if you were on week two when NO3 start to fall on 100 Net Water Volume you would add 1.3mL daily at this time for the continuing weeks until the NO3 becomes undetectable.
7. When your NO3 and PO4 levels drop near undetectable with your test kits cut your current dose in half. This will be your starting maintenance dose (if the levels drop during week 2 then the dose after reaching undetectable levels would be 0.65ml daily [1.3ml divide by 2]).
8. Continue to test for NO3 and PO4. If levels become detectable in the future increase your daily dose by 0.1ml increments per week until the levels start to decrease. If you maintain that dose the levels will eventually drop back to undetectable. This would become your new maintenance dose.

Throughout your dosing, observe your livestock daily to look for any signs of stress. If stress of any sort is noticed stop dosing, or at a minimum cut back by reducing your dose in half. If for some reason you cannot remember if you've added for that day skip it. It is better to accidentally miss a dose than add twice as much (a journal will keep this from occurring). Never double the dose for missing a prior day!

[BigFeesh]

Thanks!! What test kits do you use? I use API for no3 and po4. Are these okay or are they inaccurate?

[Gillguy]

API is ok just make sure it's not expired. From experience, Salifert, Red Sea, and Elos are better. Depending on who you talk to, everyone has their preference. I would test the water with your API and then compare it using a friends test kit or just take a sample of the water to the LFS for a test. That should give you an idea if your results are similar.