Cheap pure chemicals

Intricateart · Sep 29, 2014

Found this on ebay. Calcium chloride, 99% pure, 1lb for 9 bucks. Calcium Chloride Flakes 99 CACL2 1lb | eBay

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2014

It is very likely ok to use, but it really depends on what the other 1% is, which isn't known.

redfishbluefish · Sep 29, 2014

BRS is less expensive!

Intricateart · Oct 2, 2014

The other 1% is heavy water. My online research suggests that in studies, fish were exposed to 90% before it was fatal. Thoughts?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 2, 2014

Intricateart said:
The other 1% is heavy water. My online research suggests that in studies, fish were exposed to 90% before it was fatal. Thoughts?

Uh, no thoughts.

marke · Oct 2, 2014

If the product said pharmaceutical grade or food grade it might be ok to use? But if it gives no grade at all I would be hesitant as saving a couple dollars is not worth the risk. Just an opinion. Also I think if you find powder as opposed to flake it makes it easier to dissolve in water. How much are you using in a month? If you like buying stuff at the grocery store that works.....try Mrs wags pickling lime. It is good Kalk! Kalk is a great way to supplement Ca and Kh with other benefits. Its a good complement to a two part dosing system or Ca reactor.

beaslbob · Oct 2, 2014

Intricateart said:
Found this on ebay. Calcium chloride, 99% pure, 1lb for 9 bucks. Calcium Chloride Flakes 99 CACL2 1lb | eBay

Fwiw cal-chlor (I think LOL) is anhydrous calcium chloride (92-96%) and costs ~$8 for a 25 pound bag from a local redimix company.

my .02

Intricateart · Oct 2, 2014

Calcium chloride dihydrate, ACS reagent, ?99% | CaCl2 | Sigma-Aldrich This took some doing to find! MSDS sheet and spec sheet for the stuff I listed. Phew!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 3, 2014

ACS reagent grade material should be fine.

Chameleon · Oct 3, 2014

its more expensive than a lot of the hobby branded supplements...but I bet it works fine.

Also I just noticed its the dihydrate form which means it will take more to = the same amount in anhydrous.

Chameleon · Oct 3, 2014

Intricateart said:
The other 1% is heavy water. My online research suggests that in studies, fish were exposed to 90% before it was fatal. Thoughts?

were they swimming in mercury at 90%???
I'm pretty sure every metal and most chemicals are going to kill the fish well before they reach a concentration of 90%, unless its water

redfishbluefish · Oct 4, 2014

Intricateart said:
Calcium chloride dihydrate, ACS reagent, ?99% | CaCl2 | Sigma-Aldrich This took some doing to find! MSDS sheet and spec sheet for the stuff I listed. Phew!

Wow! The OP asked for "cheap" chemicals. At $435 for 12 kilos (ca 26 pounds), that's not cheap!!! I've been using Preston Driveway Heat.....50 pound bag for less than $20.....for more than 6 years. Again, if your not happy with using an ice melt product, BRS is most likely your best bet as far as price.

Intricateart · Oct 5, 2014

Chameleon said:
were they swimming in mercury at 90%???
I'm pretty sure every metal and most chemicals are going to kill the fish well before they reach a concentration of 90%, unless its water

Heavy water is very similar to water, but the hydrogen [FONT=arial, sans-serif]isotope deuterium is in a larger amount than usual. [/FONT]

Intricateart · Oct 5, 2014

Chameleon said:
its more expensive than a lot of the hobby branded supplements...but I bet it works fine.

Also I just noticed its the dihydrate form which means it will take more to = the same amount in anhydrous.

Ah, thank you for that info!

marke · Oct 5, 2014

Someone please correct me. BRS uses calcium dihydrate as opposed to anhydrous because when mixed with rodi it produces less heat and dissolves better. Fritz uses anhydrous flake, and claims thats better? A few of the branded liquid solutions sold in lfs claim they are concentrated to up to 160,000ppm? I thought only so much powder would dissolve in rodi before it drops to the bottom? What is the calcium ppm of the BRS calcium chloride when mixed at their suggested 2 1/2 cups to water. Can we add 3 cups, 4 cups, should we? I am confused by all these labels being so different? Can anyone clarify? How do we test for ppm or is it even important?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 6, 2014

marke said:
Someone please correct me. BRS uses calcium dihydrate as opposed to anhydrous because when mixed with rodi it produces less heat and dissolves better. Fritz uses anhydrous flake, and claims thats better? A few of the branded liquid solutions sold in lfs claim they are concentrated to up to 160,000ppm? I thought only so much powder would dissolve in rodi before it drops to the bottom? What is the calcium ppm of the BRS calcium chloride when mixed at their suggested 2 1/2 cups to water. Can we add 3 cups, 4 cups, should we? I am confused by all these labels being so different? Can anyone clarify? How do we test for ppm or is it even important?

Well, the "why" is hard to answer, but I expect BRS uses the dihydrate for two possible reasons: it is usually cheaper for the same amount of calcium (because anhydrous calcium chloride is often made via the dihydrate followed by a heating step), and it is what my original recipes suggested.

There is nothing "better" about using anhydrous calcium chloride as a calcium additive. You can get to exactly the same concentration with anhydrous or hydrated calcium chloride.

The solubility of calcium chloride is quite high so you can, if you have a reason to want to, make a very concentrated solution.

It is not made so concentrated in my (or BRS) two part recipes in order to make it an equal parts dosing two part, and the alkalinity part is the limiting factor in concentration. The 2 1/2 cups dihydrate per gallon of fresh water is about 37,000 ppm in calcium. You can make it more concentrated if you want to.

marke · Oct 6, 2014

Randy thank you for the response and education! Let me repeat to see if I understand. The alkalinity at 2 cups per gallon is a fully saturated solution and wont take more powder?? Hence in order to dose 2 parts in equal portions and not have one level rising more than the other due to concentration levels, you have found that at your 2.5 cups of CaCl or 37,000 ppm is all that is need? Then why do some manufacturers push their concentration to 160,000 ppm? The instructions on the bottle does not say dillute it down before use? This is the argument lfs use to say BRS or other 2 parts are not as good? How do we explain to them the difference?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 6, 2014

marke said:
Randy thank you for the response and education! Let me repeat to see if I understand. The alkalinity at 2 cups per gallon is a fully saturated solution and wont take more powder?? Hence in order to dose 2 parts in equal portions and not have one level rising more than the other due to concentration levels, you have found that at your 2.5 cups of CaCl or 37,000 ppm is all that is need? Then why do some manufacturers push their concentration to 160,000 ppm? The instructions on the bottle does not say dillute it down before use? This is the argument lfs use to say BRS or other 2 parts are not as good? How do we explain to them the difference?

It is not exactly saturated, but the alkalinity part of the two part recipe is close to saturation, and many people would have a hard time getting it more concentrated. So yes, I limited the concentration of both parts to match the alkalinity part limitation and to allow equal parts dosing.

Folks selling more concentrated calcium solutions are not using it as part of a two part calcium and alkalinity system. They just sell it as a calcium only supplement, which is fine at any concentration.

This is the argument lfs use to say BRS or other 2 parts are not as good?

That is just stupid, unless you are doing a cost comparison based on volume. My recipe (that BRS uses) just has more fresh water in it. There is never any limitation on the use of these products because they are not concentrated enough.

Would you make the 160,000 ppm product worse by adding some fresh water to it before dosing it to the tank? No.

hart24601 · Oct 6, 2014

Dr Fosters and Smith was having a sale on its Calcium Chloride and Sodium Carbonate, 35lb (5g) for $55 each. That is cheaper than BRS by almost $30 each and the calcium is anhydrous, I asked them, so the value is even better and at that price you get free shipping.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 6, 2014

hart24601 said:
Dr Fosters and Smith was having a sale on its Calcium Chloride and Sodium Carbonate, 35lb (5g) for $55 each. That is cheaper than BRS by almost $30 each and the calcium is anhydrous, I asked them, so the value is even better and at that price you get free shipping.

I bought some of their bulk magnesium. Hopefully it isn't a problem, but none of their bulk chemicals list any grade info that I could find.