Ca and Alk dosing

[JurisHP]

Dear fellow members- I'm hoping I can get some input on this topic. I'd like some direction on how to do this dosing correctly. I'm also wondering if there is any consensus on what type of Ca buffers people are using and how they are using it. I recently acquired a Neptune DOS, and am using Brightwell's Reef Code A & B. I followed their instructions which included measuring the levels and calculating how much of each chemical is being depleted/day. Then you do a calculation that includes the total water volume, the ppm depletion/day, etc. I came up with having to dose approx. 394 ml of Ca/day. I haven't been able to do this calculation with the Alk yet, as that reading actually increased over the 2 day period I used to get the amount of depletion (I probably messed-up the test).

Anyway, I started dosing the Ca today. The Brightwell instructions say to shake the container before dosing. I purchased the largest container and have the dosing tube going thru the cap (I drilled a hole just big enough to slide the tube in. If I don't shake the container is that a huge problem?

Any input in regards to the above would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What you dose does impact the way to do it.

If alkalinity is not depleting, the calcium isn't either and you may not need dosing except possibly a one time calcium correction if it is low.

What were the most recent calcium and alkalinity readings?

 

[JurisHP]

What you dose does impact the way to do it.

If alkalinity is not depleting, the calcium isn't either and you may not need dosing except possibly a one time calcium correction if it is low.

What were the most recent calcium and alkalinity readings?

Today:

Ca: 359 ppm
Alk: 165 ppm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I would only boost the calcium to about 420 ppm over a few days, then dose nothing more until the alkalinity has shown a drop.

 

[JurisHP]

How much of the Brightwell Reef Code B should I dose to get it to your suggested level? If I follow the instructions, it calculates to 390 ml/day. That seems high. Maybe I should use 1 product that combines both Ca and Alk ? If so, which product is best?

 

[GREEF stricken]

How much of the Brightwell Reef Code B should I dose to get it to your suggested level? If I follow the instructions, it calculates to 390 ml/day. That seems high. Maybe I should use 1 product that combines both Ca and Alk ? If so, which product is best?

HUGE proponent of Kalkwasser in ATO. Just doesn't get any simpler than that. And that covers a lot of supplementation until you have a huge consumption from coral growth....just my $.02

GS

 

[kilo5147]

What all does that have in it

 

[kilo5147]

Greef

 

[GREEF stricken]

What all does that have in it

not exactly sure what you're asking? if you're asking what's in Kalkwasser...that's probably a question for Randy as it's very chemistry related. since I am not a chemist nor do I play one on TV, I'm going to leave that to the pros. As far as what it entails, it's just simply dissolving pickling lime(Kalkwasser is actually German for limewater) either into straight RODI water or if you wish to further supersaturate the solution pre-dissolve with some vinegar. There are precise dosage instructions in one of Randy's tutorials. My point is, it's super simple. Once you dissolve and make your limewater, you simply added to your ATO reservoir, and your drip does the rest. it has handled most of my supplementation thus far. That said, I will soon need to find an additional mode of supplementation as the ATO method with Kalk Will only provide a limited amount of supplements. Eventually it will top out and your consumption will exceed your additions and you will have to find an extra dosage method that suits you. I don't wish to sound like an expert, I'm relatively new but I catch on to things fairly quickly. And I have found great success with this in the past 3 to 4 months. Do some reading. Perhaps Randy will chime in and give you a cheater link...

GS

 

[kilo5147]

Thx

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A two part system like the product you have is a good choice. You just may need very little right now.

Limewater (kalkwasser) is also a fine choice, but for now, I'd use what you have.

One question before you dose calcium is why it is low. What salt mix are you using?

 

[Black Pearl]

Randy, what are you using to make your lime water. i had been using Mrs wages, had a case but about to run out. I want to cosider another readily available source
Thanks in advance

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For a long time I used bulk quicklime (calcium oxide) that my reef club got from the Mississippi Lime Co., but for the past few years I've used calcium hydroxide from BRS.

 

[Rasengan]

What would cause your alk depletion to suddenly decrease? I've been dosing ESV B-Ionic 2-part for the longest time now and everything has been steady. Last I measured months ago, I was depleting 1dkh of Alk per day and dosing 7ml of alk and cal daily to keep my alk at 9 and cal at 420. Fast forward to this week where I've done no water changes for 2 weeks and recently added even more SPS. My readings with my Hanna were:

2015.01.19 - 9.744
2015.01.20 - 9.184
2015.01.21 - 9.016
2015.01.22 - 8.68

I would have expected that after adding more corals, my daily depletion would have been more not less. So now I can't set up my new doser because I don't know how much to dose daily anymore.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have another way to check alkalinity?

 

[Rob Top1]

What would cause your alk depletion to suddenly decrease? I've been dosing ESV B-Ionic 2-part for the longest time now and everything has been steady. Last I measured months ago, I was depleting 1dkh of Alk per day and dosing 7ml of alk and cal daily to keep my alk at 9 and cal at 420. Fast forward to this week where I've done no water changes for 2 weeks and recently added even more SPS. My readings with my Hanna were:

2015.01.19 - 9.744
2015.01.20 - 9.184
2015.01.21 - 9.016
2015.01.22 - 8.68

I would have expected that after adding more corals, my daily depletion would have been more not less. So now I can't set up my new doser because I don't know how much to dose daily anymore.

if your last measurement was months ago how can you be certain, 100% that you were at 9? Your readings show 9.744, so you weren't. Alk has a sweet spot were it depletes faster at say 9 than at 9.744. Now I don't recall if that sweet spot is unique to a tank or consistent through out the hobby, but I know if I keep mine at 9.5 I drop to 8.5 in 12hrs if not dosing. if at 10.5 takes 24 hours to drop 1dkh. That might be the change. As for adding coral and not seeing an acceleration after, as you know(I'm sure) it takes time for our sps to settle in before they start growing again. I added 21 BattleCoral frags on the 6th, and they are just now really settled and starting to lay down some new tissue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if your last measurement was months ago how can you be certain, 100% that you were at 9? Your readings show 9.744, so you weren't. Alk has a sweet spot were it depletes faster at say 9 than at 9.744. Now I don't recall if that sweet spot is unique to a tank or consistent through out the hobby, but I know if I keep mine at 9.5 I drop to 8.5 in 12hrs if not dosing. if at 10.5 takes 24 hours to drop 1dkh. That might be the change. As for adding coral and not seeing an acceleration after, as you know(I'm sure) it takes time for our sps to settle in before they start growing again. I added 21 BattleCoral frags on the 6th, and they are just now really settled and starting to lay down some new tissue.

FWIW, I've never heard of alk not depleting faster as alk gets higher. Is this a ULNS system?

 

[Rob Top1]

Not by design but I struggle to keep my No3 above .75 and Po4 above .03. Added a couple fish and feeding more so we shall see

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's an unusual problem.

 

[Rasengan]

if your last measurement was months ago how can you be certain, 100% that you were at 9? Your readings show 9.744, so you weren't. Alk has a sweet spot were it depletes faster at say 9 than at 9.744. Now I don't recall if that sweet spot is unique to a tank or consistent through out the hobby, but I know if I keep mine at 9.5 I drop to 8.5 in 12hrs if not dosing. if at 10.5 takes 24 hours to drop 1dkh. That might be the change. As for adding coral and not seeing an acceleration after, as you know(I'm sure) it takes time for our sps to settle in before they start growing again. I added 21 BattleCoral frags on the 6th, and they are just now really settled and starting to lay down some new tissue.

You're right, I don't know if my alk was at 9. I just figured it would be around that because of all my testing prior to that that led to my dose amount and stability. So I stopped testing for a while and it seems my alk did rise up a bit for some reason or another or something happened that decreased my alk depletion. If I was dosing the same amount and my alk depletion did decrease than I would assume my alk would start to rise as I'm adding more alk than what is being used. But I guess that's my question - what would cause this? I didn't all of a sudden lose any corals, in fact I added some and they are growing. Did they just all all of a sudden decide to go on a diet?

Do you have another way to check alkalinity?

I tested with both my Hanna and my API test kit and while the API isn't very precise, it didn't prove the Hanna was incorrect. More readings:

2015.01.19 - 9.744
2015.01.20 - 9.184
2015.01.21 - 9.016
2015.01.22 - 8.68
2015.01.23 - 8.568 - dosed 2 part alk/cal
2015.01.24 - 8.738 - did my bi-weekly water change using Reef Crystals
2015.01.25 - 9.016

So at least at this point I'm keeping my alk betwen 8.5 - 9 which is where I want it so I guess it's not a huge deal, I'll just have to keep testing to figure out my dose amount given the new consumption rates.