What do I do now?

Taiko · Jan 28, 2015

Hi everyone,

I currently have a reef system containing about 370 gallons of water with 320 of it being the main display. I have the following problem which as a newbie don't know exactly what to do. The following readings come from Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Test Kit.

January 21, 2015, Alkalinity - 9.8dkh
Calcium - 390ppm
January 23, 2015, Alkalinity - 9.0dkh
Calcium - 360ppm
January 24, 2015, Alkalinity - 8.7dkh
Calcium - 350ppm
January 28, 2015, Alkalinity - 7.0dkh
Calcium - 340ppm

What do you recommend I do? I would like to use and learn how to dose with 2 part. What would you do in this situation?

zemuss · Jan 28, 2015

What equipment do you have?

I would confirm the readings at a LFS.

What live stock do you have and is this a newly established tank?

We can recommend dosing / calcium reactor or Kalk. A combination might work too like dosing & Kalk Reactor or Calcium Reactor and Kalk but before thats done we need to understand the other questions first.

Taiko · Jan 28, 2015

This tank is 2 years established with sps and lps corals, most of it being sps (acropora, montipora, pocillopora, stylopora).

Fish : Scopas Tang, 2xBanggai Cardinal, 2xTomato Clown, 3xBlue Green Chromis

Equipment :
Skimmer - Red Sea C-Skim
Lights - 300w LED (bought off ebay)
Wavemaker - 2 jebao wp40
Return pump - Fluval SP6 (3434gph)
Heater - Eheim Jager 300w

Tank has been neglected for a while and am starting to do testing and dosing more frequently now, was lazy at the beginning but am now changing my habits.

Ace25 · Jan 28, 2015

My suggestion, first, get a second test kit for Alkalinity and verify readings. Once they are verified, short term solution, pick up some 2 part solution, any will work, and SLOWLY dose alkalinity to get it back up to the 9 range. I can't stress this enough, SLOOOOOOWLY. There are many online calculators for figuring out how much to dose, but in your case, you don't want to do it all at once. With that much water, your looking at quite a bit of Alkalinity to get it back up, possibly a gallon or more. If it says you need to dose 100ml (just an example, you will need a lot more than that), I would only dose 10ml and try and get your Alk to move up .1 a day until you get back up to the 9 range. If it takes a month to do that, that is fine and much better than trying to fix it fast.

Long term solution, you can add Kalkwasser in your top off water to help, kalkwasser reactor, and/or a calcium reactor. For your size tank, 2 part is probably going to end up costing more long term than buying a reactor. Plus with dosing you would ideally want to get dosing pumps and dose tiny amounts through out the day instead of bigger amounts once a day.

Taiko · Jan 28, 2015

Ace25 said:
My suggestion, first, get a second test kit for Alkalinity and verify readings. Once they are verified, short term solution, pick up some 2 part solution, any will work, and SLOWLY dose alkalinity to get it back up to the 9 range. I can't stress this enough, SLOOOOOOWLY. There are many online calculators for figuring out how much to dose, but in your case, you don't want to do it all at once. With that much water, your looking at quite a bit of Alkalinity to get it back up, possibly a gallon or more. If it says you need to dose 100ml (just an example, you will need a lot more than that), I would only dose 10ml and try and get your Alk to move up .1 a day until you get back up to the 9 range. If it takes a month to do that, that is fine and much better than trying to fix it fast.

Long term solution, you can add Kalkwasser in your top off water to help, kalkwasser reactor, and/or a calcium reactor. For your size tank, 2 part is probably going to end up costing more long term than buying a reactor. Plus with dosing you would ideally want to get dosing pumps and dose tiny amounts through out the day instead of bigger amounts once a day.

I do have a 2 part that I am going to try, which is Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium and Seachem Reef Builder (Alkalinity). What calculator do I use? If I go with a dosing pump, will the calculator show me what to dose and how much? If not, what would you guys recommend?

Clapp'sCorals · Jan 28, 2015

Also check Mg, if that's low it will be more difficult to balance your Ca and Alk

I agree with having your LFS double check your results. Test kits can go bad about 6 months after opening them. The expiration date is for an unopened kit

Ace25 · Jan 28, 2015

I would look at this calculator to figure out how much of that product to use.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

With a dosing pump, you want a liquid form of 2 part. They can come in dry form like Bulkreefsupply sells but they are intended to be mixed with a gallon of water. It is possible to use what you have with dosing pumps, but for me, there are too many unknowns with that product to use that way and it is very cheap to buy the raw materials (~$4 per 'part' for a gallon).

Taiko · Jan 28, 2015

So should I mix 1 tsp of each into 2 different cups of water and then pour into the sump and then test tomorrow?

Ace25 · Jan 28, 2015

That would be a good start to see if it makes any difference and will error on the side of caution (I think you will need a several teaspoons in 300G to get it to go up .1, but it is always good to start small and work upwards). One thing to remember, do not dose at the same time. Wait 5-10 minutes between each one so they have time to mix with the water. If you dump them both in together they will react and give to a precipitate (reef snow) which cancels out both as it just turns them into a solid form that isn't usable by corals.

beaslbob · Jan 28, 2015

I recommend this:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 28, 2015

I don't see any reason to doubt the values, and starting a very low dose of a two part each day seems like a fine plan.

Bear in mind that the Seachem products do not constitute a two part, but are simply separate additives for calcium and alkalinity.

They will be fine to use, but not as good or as easy as a true two part.

You need very little of each each day. Follow the directions for the alk part to boost it about 0.3 dKH each day for a week and see what that does.

What salt mix are you using?

Use the calcium additive to boost calcium to 420 ppm over a week or so, then you'll hardly need any unless your salt mix or low salinity drops it. You'll need abotu the same amount of solid each day as the alk part.

Taiko · Jan 29, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don't see any reason to doubt the values, and starting a very low dose of a two part each day seems like a fine plan.

Bear in mind that the Seachem products do not constitute a two part, but are simply separate additives for calcium and alkalinity.

They will be fine to use, but not as good or as easy as a true two part.

You need very little of each each day. Follow the directions for the alk part to boost it about 0.3 dKH each day for a week and see what that does.

What salt mix are you using?

Use the calcium additive to boost calcium to 420 ppm over a week or so, then you'll hardly need any unless your salt mix or low salinity drops it. You'll need abotu the same amount of solid each day as the alk part.

What two part additives do you recommend I use? What's the difference between these supplements I have and a true two part?

I've dosed the recommended on Seachem Reef Builder 1/2tsp : 1cup water, will test later on today to see the levels.

As for salt mix I am currently using Seachem Reef Salt.

Should I be dosing the calcium additive at the same day as the alkalinity additive or on seperate days? I've also dosed 1 tsp of Seachem Reef Adv. Cal. before and it usually brings up my calcium by 15ppm but everytime I raise my calcium it drops my alk by .7dkh (10.5-9.8 roughly in 24hrs).

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 29, 2015

A true two part, either my DIY or a commercial one such as ESV's B-ionic has three main features:

1. The liquids are exactly balanced so if you add 100 mL (or any equal volume) of each part, then when corals use the alkalinity that was added, they also use exactly the amount of calcium added. Thus you do not need to check calcium frequently at all. All of the dosing can be done off the alkalinity.

2. When corals use the calcium and alkalinity, they also use magnesium. The product will contain this appropriate amount of magnesium, and youmay never need to measure or supplement magnesium.

3. After corals use the calcium and alkalinity in the supplements, what remains is an assortment of salts that has the same composition as normal seawater, so the chemistry of the aquarium does not get messed up over time by too much addition of sodium (from sodium carbonate/bicarbonate) which is the usual alkalinity additive, and not too much chloride, which is the usual counterion in calcium supplements.

Taiko · Jan 29, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
A true two part, either my DIY or a commercial one such as ESV's B-ionic has three main features:

1. The liquids are exactly balanced so if you add 100 mL (or any equal volume) of each part, then when corals use the alkalinity that was added, they also use exactly the amount of calcium added. Thus you do not need to check calcium frequently at all. All of the dosing can be done off the alkalinity.

2. When corals use the calcium and alkalinity, they also use magnesium. The product will contain this appropriate amount of magnesium, and youmay never need to measure or supplement magnesium.

3. After corals use the calcium and alkalinity in the supplements, what remains is an assortment of salts that has the same composition as normal seawater, so the chemistry of the aquarium does not get messed up over time by too much addition of sodium (from sodium carbonate/bicarbonate) which is the usual alkalinity additive, and not too much chloride, which is the usual counterion in calcium supplements.

Thank you for the information, I've read your d.I.y article but haven't been able to source the calcium chloride yet. As far as b-ionic would red sea reef foundation ABC+ be a good alternative? Its one that my LFS usually has in stock. What are your thoughts and/or experiences?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 29, 2015

Taiko said:
Thank you for the information, I've read your d.I.y article but haven't been able to source the calcium chloride yet. As far as b-ionic would red sea reef foundation ABC+ be a good alternative? Its one that my LFS usually has in stock. What are your thoughts and/or experiences?

It may be an OK system, but it is not a balanced two part additive, at the very least because the A and B do not have matching doses. I'd personally pick a different two part, but the Red Sea can certainly be used the way you are using the Seachem products.

Taiko · Jan 29, 2015

Okay I'll do more research on what two parts I can source locally but for now I'll finish using these Seachem products first before I move onto anything else.

So I think I dosed more than 1/2tsp... Alkalinity is now reading at 7.6dkh.. ahaha, I think I did 1 tsp instead of 1/2 tsp considering I didn't level it off after I scooped it out.

Alkalinity - 7.6dkh
Calcium - 340ppm

Should I continue to raise alk to 9.0+? Or should I dose calcium as well to get both levels up to par with recommended levels? Then start using a dosing pump?

beaslbob · Jan 29, 2015

Taiko said:
Thank you for the information, I've read your d.I.y article but haven't been able to source the calcium chloride yet. As far as b-ionic would red sea reef foundation ABC+ be a good alternative? Its one that my LFS usually has in stock. What are your thoughts and/or experiences?

Try calling around local redimix concrete places. Calcium chloride is used to speed hardening of concrete in cold weather.
The really hard thing to find is the magnesium chloride. Locally I found a source at an industrial chemical place.
Some idea of the prices from a few back. calcium chloride (dow flake type) ~$20 for a 50 pound bag. Cal-chlor (anahydrous) 25 pound bag $8. Magnesium chloride was a little more expensive at $25-$30 for a 50 pound bad.
I used to give the stuff away at local club meetings.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 29, 2015

Taiko said:
Okay I'll do more research on what two parts I can source locally but for now I'll finish using these Seachem products first before I move onto anything else.

So I think I dosed more than 1/2tsp... Alkalinity is now reading at 7.6dkh.. ahaha, I think I did 1 tsp instead of 1/2 tsp considering I didn't level it off after I scooped it out.

Alkalinity - 7.6dkh
Calcium - 340ppm

Should I continue to raise alk to 9.0+? Or should I dose calcium as well to get both levels up to par with recommended levels? Then start using a dosing pump?

I do not necessarily think 9 dKH is any better than 7.6 dKH, but the calcium should be raised to about 420 ppm.

Rybren · Jan 29, 2015

Taiko,

Here is a link to a Canadian online reef supply place. Their prices are comparable to BRS but you won't have to pay the exchange on the dollar conversion and the shipping will be cheaper.

2500G Bulk Calcium Chloride (Makes 5 gallons)