Chemistry question dealing with SPS

[J-Dog]

Hey Randy, I am having a hard time with my SPS the last few months. Seems like all of my pieces are developing STN and are not recovering. All of my other corals (softies, zoas, chalices) seem to be doing fine, but my SPS keep dying a slow death. What's weird, is that they all look great with nice PE. I am pest free and all of my parameters are in the proper ranges. A friend of mine thinks I should get my water tested from a professional company to see if anything weird is happening. I wanted to get your opinion though, before I waste any money on something like that. Please help (if u can).....thanks!

 

[UK_Pete]

Its probably worth actually posting your parameters in detail, if you want a useful response. Sometimes people seem to post this kind of question, 'my params are OK but things are not going well' - params are OK according to who? LFS? You need to post full complete details. Everything you test for and the recent test results, salt you use, temp, tank details, WC history, what test kits manufacturers you use, how often you test, what stock you have, do you dose carbon, do you use GAC, what skimmer you have, do you have ATO, what water you use - everything including everything I havent listed there. Its expecting too much to just post a message saying 'I am not happy with my tank', unless you describe the tank in really good detail, otherwise its very difficult for someone like Randy to suggest what might be wrong with your system. Good luck.

 

[J-Dog]

Its probably worth actually posting your parameters in detail, if you want a useful response. Sometimes people seem to post this kind of question, 'my params are OK but things are not going well' - params are OK according to who? LFS? You need to post full complete details. Everything you test for and the recent test results, salt you use, temp, tank details, WC history, what test kits manufacturers you use, how often you test, what stock you have, do you dose carbon, do you use GAC, what skimmer you have, do you have ATO, what water you use - everything including everything I havent listed there. Its expecting too much to just post a message saying 'I am not happy with my tank', unless you describe the tank in really good detail, otherwise its very difficult for someone like Randy to suggest what might be wrong with your system. Good luck.

Thanks for the tip....

185 gallon tank w/40 gallon sump
ALk.....8
Cal.....430
Mag.....1300
PO4....0.03
Nitrates.....0-0.25
Using Red Sea test kits
10x54w ATI Powermodule for lighting
4 x MP40's for flow
Skimmer....ATB 1050a
Temp 76-78 degress
Water change done monthly 10-15%
Reef Crystals Salt
BRS Carbon used in reactor
5 gallon bucket used for ATO
Dosing Red Sea A&B to feed SPS

I hope I didn't forget anything else

 

[UK_Pete]

That looks like a great start. Maybe useful:

Whats the tanks history? How long has it been running?
Did you keep these SPS successfully before for a substantial time? Or is it that you added SPS recently and they never did well?
If it was successful before and not now, have you changed anything?
Is the tank old or new?
LR and sand details? Do you stir or disturb the sand or rocks?

Photo is always good IMO for a question like this.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Are you dosing organic carbon?

Are you using tap water?

Any metal parts in the water?

 

[J-Dog]

Are you dosing organic carbon?

Are you using tap water?

Any metal parts in the water?

No carbon dosing
RO/DI water has always been used
Nothing metal in the water

The tank has been running for almost 2 years now. I've always had SPS without any issues and the tank was doing well until this issue started. The tank was started with dry rock, but seeded with a couple pieces of live rock. Sand bed is never disturbed, expect for critters doing their job. The only thing I think I have changed in the last few months is the return pump.....but I replaced it with the same pump I had previously (ATB Flowstar 1500).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd guess it is most likely to be a biological problem (a pathogenic bacteria, for example), rather than a water chemistry issue, but getting a test from, say, Triton, might be a reasonable step.

 

[J-Dog]

I'd guess it is most likely to be a biological problem (a pathogenic bacteria, for example), rather than a water chemistry issue, but getting a test from, say, Triton, might be a reasonable step.

If its a biological problem, how do I fix it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If its a biological problem, how do I fix it?

That's tough. I don't think people have a good answer to that.

 

[VirusAcro]

In the past I'd high salinity that causes stn...look for that..!!

 

[Triggreef]

2 years set up, good with SPS then all a sudden problems set in. Sounds familiar. When last have you changed RO filters/membrane? I 100% feel that this was a major player in issues I had going similar to yours. My ro only was showing a TDS of 1. I had some other areas that were letting tap water into the tank in small amounts as well. All those together made problems for me. Since I fixed those issues everything is doing well again.

 

[ryan803]

Just a suggestion...I would check my potassium levels. If that's out of whack it sometimes will affect acros...

 

[Velodog2]

By sps do you mean just acros? Or all sps? I've been having similar problems with some of my acros the past few months and tend to think it may be a pathogen as well because while some are receding others in the same tank are very healthy and growing. Also Because I have seen instances where the problem has seemed to jump between two corals in contact at their base. Also I have had corals recover and begin regrowing.

Nonetheless I am very carefully investigating as much else as makes sense. Don't fall into the trap of changing a bunch of things quickly and causing an out of control condition.

The only thing I have thought of to do other than feed the corals and make them as strong and healthy as otherwise possible is to dose with a probiotic. I'm using zeobak for a week or so now. Can't say that it's helped tho.

 

[Eckolancer]

Red bugs silent killers hard to spot

 

[maroun.c]

I struggled with something similar for the last 2-3 years and Some of the things I looked into:
-ph fluctuations during the day.
-temp spikes
-periodic Alk shifts (review results history)
- metal pieces in the water or some wiring... Use a heavy metal removing resin, these usually change colors if there are any heavy metals.
- chloramines
- Any contaminant building up from 2 part dosing (maybe 2-3. Weekly larger water changes 20-30 percent.
-toxins buildup water changes will help as well as changing carbon.
-check ur RODI
- Have your results cross checked using different testkits as in my case this turned out to be the reason and the culprit was the most basic thing : sky high phosphates levels undetected with 3 testkits !
Good luck

 

[Monkeytank]

You might consider Microbacter7 or Dr Tims bacteria to help boost healthy ones to outcompete possible bad bacteria.

 

[reef_ranch]

2 years set up, good with SPS then all a sudden problems set in. Sounds familiar. When last have you changed RO filters/membrane? I 100% feel that this was a major player in issues I had going similar to yours. My ro only was showing a TDS of 1. I had some other areas that were letting tap water into the tank in small amounts as well. All those together made problems for me. Since I fixed those issues everything is doing well again.

I had the exact same experience. Start with replacing your filters!

 

[UK_Pete]

I think as Randy said, infection seems like a possibility, and no one seems to have found a simple fix for that. A triton test would at least show if you have any metal contamination, many people seem to have found inappropriate levels of things like tin and zinc, which can affect SPS. Have you dosed any zeovit supplements, because those sometimes deliberately contain heavy metals. But also, if your softies are doing great, are you confident about your nutrient levels? IE softies usually seem to do better at higher nutrient levels and SPS at lower. Keeping both in a tank seems to be a balancing act as far as nutrients go. If you had a test kit that was old and giving you an inaccurate reading and one of your nutrients had drifted up, that could be upsetting SPS.

As far as STN goes, there is quite a bit of evidence that this is frequently a bacterial infection. The evidence is not conclusive that this is always true but there are several scientific studies which found that RTN can be stopped with antibiotic treatment and that the bacteria on sick corals was very different to that on well corals. How useful this is I dont know. But some studies have found that RTN and IIRC STN mostly happen at water temps above 25 degrees C, so one thing to try might be to drop temp a bit (IE on natural reefs, RTN halted in winter).

I read that some scientists believe that having a high bacterial count in the water might act to protect corals for some unknown reason, and if you were desperate and wanted another thing to try, although perhaps a bit risky, but feeding quite a bit more and dosing lots of vinegar / vodka might increase bacteria in the water. As I say this could be thought of as risky as if it raised nutrients, that could further harm corals. FWIW though, Glenn, who has quite a nice reef tank with lots of SPS and claims to have a very healthy tank, targets phosphate of 0.04 to 0.08 ppm, and nitrate of 1 to 2 ppm. If your nitrate is frequently zero, could that be too low?

 

[Triggreef]

I think about that quite a bit. A little cooler can mean less growth through slower mtablsm. But at the same time, easier maintenance through having to feed less.

 

[UK_Pete]

From what I read these scientists believe that the bacteria become virtually or completely inactive below about 25 C, so I wondered if I have RTN or STN in the future, I might try dropping to 24 for a week or two say, and seeing if it has any effect.