Help Rick Please

[joekool]

Rick I need your help.

I have many royal blue LEDs burning up lenses in my 155e lights. The lenses of the LEDs are melting and burning the optics. I had my blue channels peak from 79 to 80% for two hours a day than back down. I took the peek down to 76% once I noticed the burning. I was able to clean out the melted lenses and put on some new optics but not sure how long that will last. I have about 22 450nm doing this across three lights.

Can you send me replacement LEDs seems like these lights should be able to handle 80% for only two hours.
In the photo you will see the burnt optics and one of the led lenses melted.

Here was my light curve which I lowered from there.

What can we do?

 

[Bow]

I'm sure rick will see this at some point but I know he will tell you to start out by filling out the service report on the web site

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

Hi Joe,

I would be very surprised if the leds caused your optics to melt. They just don't get hot enough to do this. and they don't just start doing this as a group - something else is going on.

That said - Bow is right - fill out a service request form as soon as you can.

I suspect we will need the light to be sent in.

Rick

 

[joekool]

What's happening is that the led lense itself. The one that is part of the led is melting into the optic lense causing the optic issue. You can see the melted led lense in the photo next to the optic.

It is happening to all three lights. I didn't happen until I drove them to 80%. I think it's lack of more than a sheet of metal for the heat sink. Don't get me wrong these lights are an incredible value for the money and I tell people to buy them all the time.

I have now lowered them back down in the 65% peak were they ran from when I bought them.

I seriously don't think there is any issue with the lights other than the LEDs getting hot. I obviously can't send in all three lights or any at that case. I'm willing to change out LEDs and keep the fixture at the lower percentage if you will send them to me.

I have had the lights for almost a year and never had a problem with them until increasing to 80%.
Have you done any long burn in tests at the shop?

 

[DFW]

I have one of these laying around that has not seen much use. I will remember not to use it above 65%, I guess. Oh well.

Can a "sheet of metal" be referred to as a "heat sink"? I don't think that any LED manufacturers would qualify it as such. But I'm just a hick, right?

Maybe just remove the optics before running at 80%, or better yet, add stronger fans?

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

What's happening is that the led lense itself. The one that is part of the led is melting into the optic lense causing the optic issue. You can see the melted led lense in the photo next to the optic.

It is happening to all three lights. I didn't happen until I drove them to 80%. I think it's lack of more than a sheet of metal for the heat sink. Don't get me wrong these lights are an incredible value for the money and I tell people to buy them all the time.

I have now lowered them back down in the 65% peak were they ran from when I bought them.

I seriously don't think there is any issue with the lights other than the LEDs getting hot. I obviously can't send in all three lights or any at that case. I'm willing to change out LEDs and keep the fixture at the lower percentage if you will send them to me.

I have had the lights for almost a year and never had a problem with them until increasing to 80%.
Have you done any long burn in tests at the shop?

Joe,

The problem is not the leds. I ran these lights - old and new models at 100 percent every day for over a year without any problems. As have thousands of our customers. I have never had a case of melted optics - ever. There is something else going on - and you need to get them into service.

Rick

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

Joe,

The problem is not the leds. I ran these lights - old and new models at 100 percent every day for over a year without any problems. As have thousands of our customers. I have never had a case of melted optics - ever. There is something else going on - and you need to get them into service.

Rick

And I will pay to ship it to us - and back to you - so there is no costs to you.

And our service department can determine exactly what is going on with your lights.

Rick

 

[joekool]

All three lights. My corals won't make it that long. I do appreciate your willingness to ship them back and forth.

Have run the lights like that with your apex mod and apex running them at those percentages for any length of time?

I have my apex mods running them exactly likie you are. I found that the lights don't even come on until 46% which seems strange to me, are you having this problem. And yes both knobs are running at 100% while the apex is dimming.
Just seems odd that this is happening to all three lights. The only thing I can think of is that there is something's happening with the anolog from apex running through the circuit dimmer for the PWM driver. Todd and I were waiting for dimming kits from you that we had not received so I wired it myself which I know Todd told you about. I did it exactly and copied the mod from someone else that received one from you. Unless there is something different with the circuit dimmer board that you send out with the kits pre wired than the one in my units. I don't know what could be wrong with them. If the curcuit in the kit is different than thats what it is most likely. I had to do it myself as I got tired of waiting on you to send them to me.

Once again I do appreciate that you are getting back to me and your willingness to get this resolved.

I know you want to see the lights. I just can't go with out them.

Maybe we can swap them out. Send me three lights and I'll send you mine. If you get them working or figured out than we can do the swap back. I like my lights as they are setup for my tank.

Here is a photo of the mod

 

[wcfost]

I don't mean to hijack your thread Joe, but I'm chiming in because I am having a similar issue with my DM-155e. I submitted a service request on Wednesday and am awaiting a reply. Here are a couple of photos:

I don't use a controller and typically run the blues at around 70% for 6 hours per day. I experienced similar burn out in my other 155e. Just like yours, they don't illuminate at all until they're ramped up to 30-40% or so.

 

[joekool]

I don't mean to hijack your thread Joe, but I'm chiming in because I am having a similar issue with my DM-155e. I submitted a service request on Wednesday and am awaiting a reply. Here are a couple of photos:



I don't use a controller and typically run the blues at around 70% for 6 hours per day. I experienced similar burn out in my other 155e. Just like yours, they don't illuminate at all until they're ramped up to 30-40% or so.

I'm actually glad you chimed in. They said they never have seen this but I knew I couldn't be the only one.

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

Charles emailed you today about your light. As it says on our site - we generally respond to Service Request Orders within 72 hours. We don't know what happened with Joe's lights - since we don't have them to test - and when we get one to test - we will respond to his posts. In Joes case this is an example of someone completely tearing a light apart - and now the don't work. You had a similar issue with another 155e and it was replaced. Your current light is out of warranty but I told Charles to get it in and we would fix it and ship it back to you at no charge.

Rick

I don't mean to hijack your thread Joe, but I'm chiming in because I am having a similar issue with my DM-155e. I submitted a service request on Wednesday and am awaiting a reply. Here are a couple of photos:




I don't use a controller and typically run the blues at around 70% for 6 hours per day. I experienced similar burn out in my other 155e. Just like yours, they don't illuminate at all until they're ramped up to 30-40% or so.

 

[TJ's Reef]

Hey bud, have you called Rick yet ? I know Rick and he has offered to take care of it, which I'm sure they will... meaning Charles. Your tank will survive fine with just (2) fixtures short time and this will at least give you some answers as to why the emitters are getting so hot. I'm guessing with the mod that some emitters are being over driven to the point of failure. On my DIY array early on I burned out most of the lower forward voltage capable emitters or ones designed to handle only 350-500ma max.

Reef Radiance office # 925-658-4533


Cheers, Todd

 

[joekool]

Todd they act like this has never happened before and that we are the cause of the issue when in fact I have talked with a few people that have had this issue and its not just on modded lights.
The above guy had not modded and he is just using the standard manual dimmer on the light melted optics only at 70% 6 hours a day.

Yes I would assume it is the mod or the heat plate delaminating from the circuit board not taking the heat away from the LEDs. If you could call it a heat sink. they are an affordable light. so you get what you pay for. It has to be a heat issue, well obviously the LEDs are melting there lenses off.
But wait I must not have any clue what I'm talking about. It seems like your blaming us for the LEDs burning or getting to hot.

Also I would have taken the light apart to put in the mod that you never sent me anyways. I copied the mod perfectly and any issues with the light have nothing to do with what I did.
I could keep going on but at those point I don't think it's worth my time.

 

[wcfost]

Charles emailed you today about your light.... You had a similar issue with another 155e and it was replaced. Your current light is out of warranty but I told Charles to get it in and we would fix it and ship it back to you at no charge.

Rick

The fact of the matter is that two out of the two lights I bought from you have had the same issue in less than a year and a half. I had to pay $35 to ship the first light and it took two months for you to get a light back to me. In the meantime it'd take a week or more to get replies to my emails and I seem to only get any kind of attention when I make a public post in a forum. BTW, in the end you didn't even send me my original light back, you sent a refurb, which you could've done from the beginning instead of two months later. Oh and I almost forgot, the refurb light you sent me had the wrong fan installed in it so I had to get that issue fixed too.

But then, 3 months after all that, a dozen of the LEDs on the other fixture are burnt and you act like you're doing me some kind of favor by offering to fix them. When I have to pay a total of 70 bucks in shipping, wait two months for one repair (which doesn't even have the right parts when it finally arrives), and maybe just as long for the second (I've got no reason to expect otherwise), that's not a favor, that's bad customer service. So I'll take my out of warranty light and fix it myself. Thanks.

 

[joekool]

Just to let you know. I have been contacted by multiple people and even some from other vendor lights that are. Having this issue. To say that it is because I did something is ludicrous to cause this. Plan and simple the LEDs are getting to hot because the heat plate can not dissipate the heat properly. What do you plan on doing about this issue. If I exchange the lights with you Rick the same thing is going to happen. So what do you plan on doing about this issue.

You know most of us including me would gladly pay more for these lights if they had an actual heat sink. A 1/4" thick finned heat sink would do wonders for these lights and the lights would last years at higher out puts.

 

[joekool]

The fact of the matter is that two out of the two lights I bought from you have had the same issue in less than a year and a half. I had to pay $35 to ship the first light and it took two months for you to get a light back to me. In the meantime it'd take a week or more to get replies to my emails and I seem to only get any kind of attention when I make a public post in a forum. BTW, in the end you didn't even send me my original light back, you sent a refurb, which you could've done from the beginning instead of two months later. Oh and I almost forgot, the refurb light you sent me had the wrong fan installed in it so I had to get that issue fixed too.

But then, 3 months after all that, a dozen of the LEDs on the other fixture are burnt and you act like you're doing me some kind of favor by offering to fix them. When I have to pay a total of 70 bucks in shipping, wait two months for one repair (which doesn't even have the right parts when it finally arrives), and maybe just as long for the second (I've got no reason to expect otherwise), that's not a favor, that's bad customer service. So I'll take my out of warranty light and fix it myself. Thanks.

Have you gotten anywhere with your issue?

 

[joekool]

Charles emailed you today about your light. As it says on our site - we generally respond to Service Request Orders within 72 hours. We don't know what happened with Joe's lights - since we don't have them to test - and when we get one to test - we will respond to his posts. In Joes case this is an example of someone completely tearing a light apart - and now the don't work. You had a similar issue with another 155e and it was replaced. Your current light is out of warranty but I told Charles to get it in and we would fix it and ship it back to you at no charge.

Rick

And Rick my lights do work. Nothing I did caused the LEDs to get too hot. So even when people that have never opened there lights are having the same issue you blame me for the issue. Even non apex modded lights are doing this. Great way to pass the blame. Maybe for once you could just admit that there is an issue with the lights and we can all move on to fixing them instead of you trying to make yourself look better. I don't feel swapping out a light for a different one is going to fix the issue as it will happen again to the new light.

As to your statement about running the light for a year at 100% really. both channels at the same time? Surely this never happened or you would have seen this issue. You didn't even have this model for sale for very long when I bought these 155e's so there is no way you could have done this. Are you saying that you have run one of these 155e lights constantly for 100% both channels from when you first got these lights?

Sorry everyone for going off I just don't feel that I should get blamed for apparent issues with these lights at higher outputs.
Maybe we could actually work together on fixing this issue instead of going back and forth. I know this will never happen so I guess it's up to us customers to fix our own lights because its our fault they are doing this.

If RR has a reply other than we know there is an issue with these lights and we are willing to figure out how to fix the lights so they won't keep doing this. Okay but I'm not going to go back and forth anymore

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

And Rick my lights do work. Nothing I did caused the LEDs to get too hot. So even when people that have never opened there lights are having the same issue you blame me for the issue. Even non apex modded lights are doing this. Great way to pass the blame. Maybe for once you could just admit that there is an issue with the lights and we can all move on to fixing them instead of you trying to make yourself look better. I don't feel swapping out a light for a different one is going to fix the issue as it will happen again to the new light.

As to your statement about running the light for a year at 100% really. both channels at the same time? Surely this never happened or you would have seen this issue. You didn't even have this model for sale for very long when I bought these 155e's so there is no way you could have done this. Are you saying that you have run one of these 155e lights constantly for 100% both channels from when you first got these lights?

Sorry everyone for going off I just don't feel that I should get blamed for apparent issues with these lights at higher outputs.
Maybe we could actually work together on fixing this issue instead of going back and forth. I know this will never happen so I guess it's up to us customers to fix our own lights because its our fault they are doing this.

If RR has a reply other than we know there is an issue with these lights and we are willing to figure out how to fix the lights so they won't keep doing this. Okay but I'm not going to go back and forth anymore

Joe,

I have asked as have Todd and Bow for you to send in a light so we can look at it. The simple fact is that any company that sells electronics is not going to send parts or exchange products to a customer that opened it up and re-wired it. In fact - if you contacted HP and said that you had opened up 3 of their computers and re-wired them and want help with it - they would tell you very simply that your warranty was over and that would be that. If you called up Ford and said I rewired my car and now it doesn't work and clearly it is their fault - they would say the same thing. I have offered to pay to ship one of your lights to us so our service department can determine what the problem is. If you are not willing to send in a light for us to check out, then there is nothing we can do. Despite all the hyperbole - you have a light that has been re-wired by you - and I can not help you until we see it for ourselves. If that seems unreasonable to you - then I cant change your mind.

You can post over and over about this - but without a light in hand I cannot help you.

If you take a second and look at this - clearly that is what we are trying to do - to help you.

But you have never filled out a Service Request Form - like all of our customers do when they have a service issue - or called me personally even when Todd suggested this and gave you the phone number to make it easy to do.

If you are not willing to let us see your light - then I cannot help you - no matter how many times you post.

Rick

 

[wcfost]

Have you gotten anywhere with your issue?

Well Rick never respond to my post, but to his credit he originally said they'd take a look at the light even though it's out of warranty. The fact is though that I don't want to spend a another 35 bucks on shipping or wait 2 months for a replacement again, especially considering that (as I expect), I could very well have have the same problems with the replacement as I had with my original two units. Switching back and forth between the leds and my old T5 fixture while Rick's got one of my units has taken a toll on the tank so I'd really like to avoid doing that again. So when I have the time I'm going to replace the non functioning leds and maybe install some .25A fans to dissipate the more effectively than the .12A ones are able to. Anyway since this isn't really relevant to Rick anymore I'll keep you updated via PM.

 

[joekool]

I know what happens I send you my light and then you say it's my fault because I installed the apex mods.

What would help out everyone with the same problem which hasn't changed. The LEDs are burning up. If you to admit that there is an issue and that it is happening to both modded lights and non modded lights would help.
If you would quit differing to well I got to see your light.
Well Rick you have seen them doing the exact issue I'm having. So no you don't need to see my lights because you have seen them. What you need to do is come up with a solution then offer to make that solution happen.

I have talked to 8 people that are having this same issue and most have sent them in only to receive fixed or replacements that do the same thing.

So you can repeat yourself over and over but with out admitting that you know something is wrong and quit passing the blame to me and others that we did something to the light.

So no I won't send you my light because you already have seen and know the issue and have no current fix for it.