First Triton water analysis results

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

gregoryleonard

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 10, 2012
Messages
570
Reaction score
34
Location
Douglasville, Georgia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just received my results from Triton and have a few questions about the results.
4 levels came back extremely high
Heavy metals:
Sn (Tin) was 10.7 on a target of 0.10 ug/l

Macro elements:
Bromine (Br) was 89.64 on a target of 62.00 mg/l
Boron (B) was 7.26 on a target of 4.50 mg/l

LI- Group:
Lithium (Li) was 2,545.00 on a target of 200 ug/l

Also had a little higher PO4 than desired, but had just changed out GFO media before sending in the water sample.

My question for the chemistry experts out there is could Sn and Li be coming from the Reef Crystals I use? Trying to identify where these and the other 2 macro elements could be coming from.

Any other suggestions as to where these might be coming from? Use GFO, dose Randy Holmes Farley's 2 part AK and CA _could the products (Arm and Hammer Baking soda - baked for 45 min at 350 then mixed with RODI water and Calcium Chloride flakes from pool store for CA) I use to make these additives cause any of these elevated levels? I also done Vinegar on auto doing pump (48 ml per day over 6 hours). I have been using ReefCrystals and have 4 full 200 Gal boxes, but don't want to use it for the 4 15% water changes (1 per week) suggested by Triton if these elevated levels could be from the salt. I did see the comparison of ReefCrystals versus ESV salt that was sent to Triton for testing and Reef Crystals had pretty good levels except for AK at 10+.

Any advice and help as to where these levels might be coming from is appreciated.
 

hatfielj

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,321
Reaction score
1,938
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm sending my test vials in today. You point out a potential problem with these tests though. We're getting all this info on what's in our water, but we really don't know what to do with that information. I mean, its one thing to say we're low in something and then sell us some solution to replinish it, but when we come back getting high results of things like Boron and Bromine, and lithium, who the heck knows where that's coming from! Maybe the lithium is coming from the municipal water source? I don't know how we'd ever be able to figure that out. Then, at some point if you try to remedy the situation, you're going to have to send in another 40 dollar test to confirm if you're fixes worked.
I still want to know what's in my water though, just not sure I'll be able to do much with that info once I get it:)
 
OP
OP
gregoryleonard

gregoryleonard

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 10, 2012
Messages
570
Reaction score
34
Location
Douglasville, Georgia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm sending my test vials in today. You point out a potential problem with these tests though. We're getting all this info on what's in our water, but we really don't know what to do with that information. I mean, its one thing to say we're low in something and then sell us some solution to replinish it, but when we come back getting high results of things like Boron and Bromine, and lithium, who the heck knows where that's coming from! Maybe the lithium is coming from the municipal water source? I don't know how we'd ever be able to figure that out. Then, at some point if you try to remedy the situation, you're going to have to send in another 40 dollar test to confirm if you're fixes worked.
I still want to know what's in my water though, just not sure I'll be able to do much with that info once I get it:)
Thanks for the reply. Hopefully there are some chemists (Randy Holmes Farley) out there that can shed some light on where these elements might be coming from. I use a 5 stage RODI system and just changed all stages out less than 6 months ago.
Good luck with your results.
 

acromike

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
197
Reaction score
9
Location
New Jersey
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I also got my results today. I am using reef crystals and use RODI water. I also have no idea what to do with the results I received. Need some guideance here otherwise this is just a waste of money.

Aluminum 216.90mg/l a deviation of 214.90
Br 93.07 a deviation of 31.07
Li 331.9 deviation of 131.9

I am using phosguard as GFO. maybe this explains the Aluminum? I am more confused now than when I started. Can someone from Triton please help out?
 

Sangheili

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
652
Reaction score
113
Location
Just outside Las Vegas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Maybe the lithium is coming from the municipal water source? I don't know how we'd ever be able to figure that out. Then, at some point if you try to remedy the situation, you're going to have to send in another 40 dollar test to confirm if you're fixes worked.
I still want to know what's in my water though, just not sure I'll be able to do much with that info once I get it:)

I think what were going to see here is lots of people testing both their tank and everything they put INTO their tank (salt, additives, etc). This will hopefully also lead to some manufacturers improving the purity of the components they use and ultimately less harmful elements being introduced into tanks. I'm very curious to see which salts come out the best.
 

Sangheili

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
652
Reaction score
113
Location
Just outside Las Vegas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I also got my results today. I am using reef crystals and use RODI water. I also have no idea what to do with the results I received. Need some guideance here otherwise this is just a waste of money.

Aluminum 216.90mg/l a deviation of 214.90
Br 93.07 a deviation of 31.07
Li 331.9 deviation of 131.9

I am using phosguard as GFO. maybe this explains the Aluminum? I am more confused now than when I started. Can someone from Triton please help out?

Check my thread please. I use Phosguard and got high aluminum reading as well. How long have you been using it and what are your water changes like?
 

acromike

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
197
Reaction score
9
Location
New Jersey
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
First Triton Water analysis

I use phosguard in a media reactor. My total system is 500 gallons. I have the reactor about 3/4 full with phosguard. I do a 40 gallon water change every two weeks. Really not sure what to make out of the Triton test. I think it is great to have data. Really cant act on the data just yet. Is high aluminum toxic to a reef? I think plenty of Reefers are using phosguard. Is an aluminum of 216. 90ug/ml critically high? What if any action is recommended? Stop using Phosguard? I recently switched to phosguard from Rowaphos.

My reef looks good, however, I notice that some corals do not have the same PE they are capable of having. Somthing in water is aggravating them.
 

BNUTTHEHUT

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
244
Reaction score
18
Location
CALIFORNIA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm sending my test vials in today. You point out a potential problem with these tests though. We're getting all this info on what's in our water, but we really don't know what to do with that information. I mean, its one thing to say we're low in something and then sell us some solution to replinish it, but when we come back getting high results of things like Boron and Bromine, and lithium, who the heck knows where that's coming from! Maybe the lithium is coming from the municipal water source? I don't know how we'd ever be able to figure that out. Then, at some point if you try to remedy the situation, you're going to have to send in another 40 dollar test to confirm if you're fixes worked.
I still want to know what's in my water though, just not sure I'll be able to do much with that info once I get it:)

There is a corrective action sheet on the Triton website after you get your results.
 

hatfielj

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,321
Reaction score
1,938
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I really think these results will be helpful to anyone who's having trouble with their tank (say a loss of color or polyp extension). My tank is currently doing good, so I don't plan on changing anything. My first results will be more for reference to establish a baseline set of parameters at which I know my tank was doing well. Then, if I have any trouble in the future, I can repeat the test and see what's changed.
 

gpwdr

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
896
Reaction score
443
Location
Enfield, Connecticut
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm sending my test vials in today. You point out a potential problem with these tests though. We're getting all this info on what's in our water, but we really don't know what to do with that information. I mean, its one thing to say we're low in something and then sell us some solution to replinish it, but when we come back getting high results of things like Boron and Bromine, and lithium, who the heck knows where that's coming from! Maybe the lithium is coming from the municipal water source? I don't know how we'd ever be able to figure that out. Then, at some point if you try to remedy the situation, you're going to have to send in another 40 dollar test to confirm if you're fixes worked.
I still want to know what's in my water though, just not sure I'll be able to do much with that info once I get it:)

It's strange how everyones test results are so drastically different.

Whats up with that?

Gene
 

dgrigor02

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
157
Reaction score
123
Location
MN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ehsan mentioned in the Macna speaker event that his tank he flip flops between aluminum oxide and GFO becuase of the aluminum levels. So for sure can part of the reason. I wouldn't discount the salt though I use Instant Ocean and my Al results were inline and I don't use any phosphate binders.
 

dgrigor02

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
157
Reaction score
123
Location
MN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sorry meant to say inline with yours being on the high side and I don't use phosguard so leaning toward salt impurity.
 

acromike

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
197
Reaction score
9
Location
New Jersey
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I use reef crystals. I really think it is the phosguard. Research on this has already been done and it is a known culprit for elevating aluminum triton lists this as a correction is water change and stop or reduce using aluminum phosphate binders. Common things are common i am going to target reducing phosguard first and retest water
 

KritikaL

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
171
Reaction score
48
Location
United Kingdom
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
over here in the UK, nearly everyone who is running triton is swapping between GFO and AL99 phos removers, they both do the same job, but both add 2 different metals to the tank.

GFO adds iron i believe and al99 adds aluminium, without doing research, i think if you swap between the both they cancel each other out.

So if you've been using an alumnium phos remover, swap for a period of time and use an iron one, and see where your tests come back at next time, the aluminium will go down and the iron will more than likely be raised.

Tin, i had tin in my water... it came from 1 of 2 places.

1) RO filter
2) this ones a big of a myth, but i`ll explain it anyways.... Apparently on glass that is used for aquariums there is a good and a bad side to have on the inside of the tank, maybe a aquarium builder can explain further on this one.

However one side is 'rough' and one side is 'clean' if they get the wrong side on the inside of the aquarium it can have sources of tin in it.

Theres probably a 3-4-5 but I haven't contemplated them yet, electrical wiring maybe? or some sort of electrical component in the tank. But either way Tin is a weird one.

Mine always comes high on silicates + barium, no idea why. I since run al99 and rowaphos to try and bring both down and are working.... I Also run full ZEOVIT system, but with zeovit theres no method to bring these down apart from water changes, which i am doing, but still adding it as no matter what i do to my RO filter it seems to constantly let silicates / barium through.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Macro elements:
Bromine (Br) was 89.64 on a target of 62.00 mg/l
Boron (B) was 7.26 on a target of 4.50 mg/l

LI- Group:
Lithium (Li) was 2,545.00 on a target of 200 ug/l

Also had a little higher PO4 than desired, but had just changed out GFO media before sending in the water sample.

My question for the chemistry experts out there is could Sn and Li be coming from the Reef Crystals I use? Trying to identify where these and the other 2 macro elements could be coming from.

.

Are you using a magnesium supplement?

The lithium might be from long term use of a calcium supplement, assuming none is removed.

I showed that use of certain calcium supplements can add 2 ppm (2,000 ppb) of lithium over the course of a year. Brands change suppliers, but at the time in 2004, these were Dowflake, Warner, and ESV.

FWIW, I wouldn't be sure the lithium is cause for concern, as many people have used these supplements for many years. :)

Your boron and bromine are not a concern. :)
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I use phosguard in a media reactor. My total system is 500 gallons. I have the reactor about 3/4 full with phosguard. I do a 40 gallon water change every two weeks. Really not sure what to make out of the Triton test. I think it is great to have data. Really cant act on the data just yet. Is high aluminum toxic to a reef? I think plenty of Reefers are using phosguard. Is an aluminum of 216. 90ug/ml critically high? What if any action is recommended? Stop using Phosguard? I recently switched to phosguard from Rowaphos.

My reef looks good, however, I notice that some corals do not have the same PE they are capable of having. Somthing in water is aggravating them.

The aluminum released from aluminum-based phosphate binders can be high enough to irritate corals. I've shown that myself. Soft corals such as leathers seem to be among those that react to aluminum. Your aluminum is possibly high enough to irritate corals. In my experiments, 0.045 ppm did not apparently irritate then while 0.45 ppm definitely did when added all at once.

That said, the Triton method cannot tell what the aluminum or any other element may be bound to (organics and such) which may reduce its toxicity.
 

dgrigor02

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
157
Reaction score
123
Location
MN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Gotcha, my bad. Mine show high at 32 ug/l. Yours is way higher. Since I don't use any media, I assume mine is from the salt. Likely the majority of yours is the phosphate media but not all of it.
 

Ike

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,011
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The aluminum released from aluminum-based phosphate binders can be high enough to irritate corals. I've shown that myself. Soft corals such as leathers seem to be among those that react to aluminum. Your aluminum is possibly high enough to irritate corals. In my experiments, 0.045 ppm did not apparently irritate then while 0.45 ppm definitely did when added all at once.

That said, the Triton method cannot tell what the aluminum or any other element may be bound to (organics and such) which may reduce its toxicity.

Which is why I don't understand why people use the stuff anymore. I had terrible experiences with it years ago and had near instant reactions from very stressed out corals. Plus, from what I understand, GFO is far more efficient on a cost ratio at removing PO4. Also, GFO doesn't seem to change the iron content in the water column.

I asked Triton why they switched back and forth between gfo and ao, and I got kind of a non answer that didn't mean much. Does anyone have a clear explanation for why they suggest using aluminum oxide?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Which is why I don't understand why people use the stuff anymore. I had terrible experiences with it years ago and had near instant reactions from very stressed out corals. Plus, from what I understand, GFO is far more efficient on a cost ratio at removing PO4. Also, GFO doesn't seem to change the iron content in the water column.

I asked Triton why they switched back and forth between gfo and ao, and I got kind of a non answer that didn't mean much. Does anyone have a clear explanation for why they suggest using aluminum oxide?

To some extent, I am pleased that this has finally come out in a wider context.

I published results 10 years ago (using the same method Triton uses) that showed Phosguard released aluminum, and in amounts enough to irritate corals (by adding that amount of aluminum and they got irritated). At the time it was recognized that Phosguard irritated some leathers, but not why. I showed why.

But Seachem freaked out, blasting me across the boards, and claiming it released no aluminum. Even purporting to show it released nothing (using a method with limit of detection higher than I actually found, so of course they found nothing...) Last I saw they still claimed it released no aluminum.

Anyway,I expect in small amounts or infrequently it is likely OK. But I prefer GFO since iron worries me less than aluminum.

I'm curious on Triton's concern with iron. They've obviously seen a lot more data, but I've yet to see any Triton data showing detectable iron (or at least I didn't notice it). :)
 

Ike

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,011
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
To some extent, I am pleased that this has finally come out in a wider context.

I published results 10 years ago (using the same method Triton uses) that showed Phosguard released aluminum, and in amounts enough to irritate corals (by adding that amount of aluminum and they got irritated). At the time it was recognized that Phosguard irritated some leathers, but not why. I showed why.

But Seachem freaked out, blasting me across the boards, and claiming it released no aluminum. Even purporting to show it released nothing (using a method with limit of detection higher than I actually found, so of course they found nothing...) Last I saw they still claimed it released no aluminum.

Anyway,I expect in small amounts or infrequently it is likely OK. But I prefer GFO since iron worries me less than aluminum.

I'm curious on Triton's concern with iron. They've obviously seen a lot more data, but I've yet to see any Triton data showing detectable iron (or at least I didn't notice it). :)

I asked them straight up during the MACNA talk if they've seen elevated iron content in tanks with GFO use and if that's why they switch back and forth, and they said no.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 71 53.0%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 68 50.7%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 34 25.4%
  • None.

    Votes: 30 22.4%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.7%
Back
Top