My results - ESV salt mix

[reef_ranch]

I have a 400 gal SPS system that I have had running for almost a year. I've only used ESV salt mix. I also dose Vodka and KZ Flatworm Stop mixed with Potassium. I occasionally also dose KZ sponge power. Here are my results:

View attachment ACreeftritonresults10_28_14 1.pdf
View attachment ACreeftritonresults10_28_14 2.pdf

I am having issues with my SPS -- all are suddenly suffering - browning out and losing polyp extension over a period of 48 hours. Is there any hint in these results as to what the problem could be?

 

[reef_ranch]

I can't figure out how to post a picture of the results instead of the link. To make it easier on those who don't want to hit the link, the results I am concerned about are:

Al at 47.73 µg/l with a target of 2.00 µg/l
Br at 144.40 mg/l with a target of 62.00 mg/l
B at 8.07 mg/l with a target of 4.50 mg/l
Li at 449.80 µg/l with a target of 200.00 µg/l ( I am less concerned about this since others are getting much higher readings with no apparent ill effects)
Si at 405.00 μg/l with a target of 100.00 μg/l
I at 11.27 μg/l with a target of 60.00 μg/l

 

[Sangheili]

Do you use GFO or PhosGuard/Seagel for Phosphate control? Curious if the Al is coming from the Salt or from the media.

 

[reef_ranch]

I use PO4x4, which I thought was encapsulated gfo.... Perhaps not?

 

[Sangheili]

You are correct, PO4x4 appears to be GFO encapsulated with some polymer. It may be the best solution for me, but I need to do more research.

I would not expect this to be the source of Aluminum.

"These are just GFO with a poly coating. The have shown no proof that it does not leach iron out, it is just a claim. All I see is marketing hype. It may be more on the order as Randy suggested the other day that it is likely to break apart less, thus exposing less free GFO which *may leach iron which normal GFO * may do. "

 

[reef_ranch]

Begging the question where is the Al coming from? I am going to stop all dosing, do a massive water change and retest. That should also help with my SPS health issue....

 

[Sangheili]

Begging the question where is the Al coming from? I am going to stop all dosing, do a massive water change and retest. That should also help with my SPS health issue....

If you feel like contributing the information, a sample of your mixed salt would be awesome data. Not cheap data, but useful nonetheless

(If you do this, mix it with 0 TDS water, at 70-75 deg after container is full of water first, use a sterile mixing device and container, etc)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can't figure out how to post a picture of the results instead of the link. To make it easier on those who don't want to hit the link, the results I am concerned about are:

Al at 47.73 µg/l with a target of 2.00 µg/l
Br at 144.40 mg/l with a target of 62.00 mg/l
B at 8.07 mg/l with a target of 4.50 mg/l
Li at 449.80 µg/l with a target of 200.00 µg/l ( I am less concerned about this since others are getting much higher readings with no apparent ill effects)
Si at 405.00 μg/l with a target of 100.00 μg/l
I at 11.27 μg/l with a target of 60.00 μg/l

I personally don't think any of those are responsible for coral problems.

In my experiments, that aluminum level wasn't enough to irritate corals, for example. 10x your level does, and some people may have levels closer to that. I didn't test SPS, but it is traditionally accepted that aluminum oxide phosphate binders have more often impacted soft corals such as leathers first.

 

[reef_ranch]

I personally don't think any of those are responsible for coral problems.

In my experiments, that aluminum level wasn't enough to irritate corals, for example. 10x your level does, and some people may have levels closer to that. I didn't test SPS, but it is traditionally accepted that aluminum oxide phosphate binders have more often impacted soft corals such as leathers first.

Thanks for the info. I'm beginning to conclude that my corals are stressed from too low nutrient levels and will react badly to even minor changes in chemistry.... I have never been able to measure nitrate and my total phosphate measured 006. Time to bump up the feeding and stop with the vodka.

 

[reef_ranch]

If you feel like contributing the information, a sample of your mixed salt would be awesome data. Not cheap data, but useful nonetheless

(If you do this, mix it with 0 TDS water, at 70-75 deg after container is full of water first, use a sterile mixing device and container, etc)

That does describe my standard mixing process, other than ensuring that the container is sterile. I use a 100 gallon plastic tank that I clean every six months or so -- not an easy thing to do.
That aside, I have decided to take a shotgun approach to saving my corals since I don't have the luxury of changing one thing at a time and waiting a week or two to see whether it has an effect on the corals. So, besides changing the r/o sediment, carbon and di filters, stopping all dosing, doing a 75% water change, increasing my feeding and SLOWLY lowering my alk which had crept up from the low 8 dKh to high 9s (due, I believe to increased water changes with ESV which when mixed according to the instructions has high alk), I've also changed the salt mix. After using the last of my ESV, I bought tow buckets of Tropic Marin Pro-Reef. I realize that is my tank stabilizes I will have no clear idea what went wrong, but at this point I'm more concerned about saving as many corals as possible than the pure science (with apologies to the scientists!)

As an aside, I'm confident that the ESV is NOT the cause of any of my issues. It may have contributed to a small alk spike, but that's my fault for not recognizing that by doing more water changes with higher alk water I was going to increase my alk level. Doh!

 

[o2manyfish]

Art,

I have a couple of friends out your direction that have been having similar issues in the past few months. Supposedly there was a notice that the water department had been dosing high levels of chloramines. Even with RO you could be adding chloramines to your water. You might try adding some Prime to neutralize it. Sounds like you are making several changes so you might not know which is the golden ticket. But a little prime never hurts although your skimmer may be upset for few hours.

Dave B

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Art,

I have a couple of friends out your direction that have been having similar issues in the past few months. Supposedly there was a notice that the water department had been dosing high levels of chloramines. Even with RO you could be adding chloramines to your water. You might try adding some Prime to neutralize it. Sounds like you are making several changes so you might not know which is the golden ticket. But a little prime never hurts although your skimmer may be upset for few hours.

Dave B

Did any of them check to see if it was chloramine in their RO/Di effluent water? An RO/DI usually does a good job of taking out chloramine.

I'd certainly get a cheap total chlorine kit and check it if I was worried, rather than just adding Prime to the water.

 

[reef_ranch]

I'll check chlorine in the effluent when I get home but since I just changed all of my RO/DI filters, including the chloramine removing carbon block, I'm sure I won't find any. I have changed about 1/2 of the total system water with new water made from the refreshed RO/DI, so if chloramines was the culprit, I'm on my way to correcting it. My money is on ultra low nutrients coupled with two stressors - a Levamisole treatment for AEFW and a 1dKh Alk bump.

Thanks for the help Dave and Randy.

 

[o2manyfish]

Art, I misinterpreted you original post about the KZ Flatworm exit, thinking that was something you were regularly dosing. If you did the levamisole treatment that's most likely the reason your corals seem unhappy. I don't have any friends who have done a flatworm treatment and not had some repercussions with their corals.

Dave B

 

[reef_ranch]

Dave, I did two in tank treatments of Levamisole about two weeks prior to the issues starting. The corals initially looked better than ever. I did a 20% water change and added carbon after each dose. I then started daily dosing with flatworm exit and potassium. Two weeks later, all of the SPS started to turn brown and stn. That's when I got the water tested.

 

[reef_ranch]

I should say the the treatments were 10 days apart. The first one on 10/2, the second 10/12.