My Triton Results

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TheClark

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Overview

I eagerly sent off some water to Germany for theinfamous Triton ICP test. Thirteen days later results are in.

Ifyou are interested in it, there is a great presentation from MACNA here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPs1WCdW4y4

Ina nutshell, a deep analysis is performed on your water at a level neverpreviously available to hobbyists.

Thisdata is compared against NSW sampled from around the world and recommendationsare made.

My Results

00f3490083401c027a6750524780201c.jpg



59084473b8523bf52055e3daaee0e0c5.jpg



MyTest Results Same Day Using Home Test Kits

SG- 1.024 (calibrated refractometer)
Calcium- 665 (red sea pro)
Alk- 8.624 (Hanna)
Mag- 1560 (red sea pro)
P04- 0.00 (Hanna)
PH- 8.14


Triton Recommendations

Sn(Tin) Too high - 4x15% WC
Na(Sodium) too low- Fix salinity
Mg(Magnesium) too low- Dose to raise magnesium
K-(Potassium) too high - check testkit? Currently not dosing directly
Br(Bromine) too high - 4 x 15% WC
B(Boron) too low - Dose boron
Sr(Strontium) too high - Stop dosing Strontium!
Li(Lithium) too high - 4 x 15% WC
I(Iodine) too low - Dose iodine
Si(Silicone) too high - Check DI and PO4 media


Summary

Onearea to note is the personal / home test kits vs the Triton ICP. I waspleasantly surprised at how accurate the Calcium test turned out compared toRed Sea, but felt uneasy that the magnesium test was so far off.

A second area to note is my P vs P04, I am guessing that Randy the chemistry reef guru may find that interesting as well. Lets just say I have been battling a horrendous phosphate issue and the algae that goes with it.


Iwill give this a try, first documenting coral health and keeping a log ofchanges. While I am not sure how to doseBoron or if I even should odds are some googling will yield results.

Despitethis deep analysis, my salinity, calcium and mag were off. Obviously I have become a bitcomplacent. These can be adjusted ofcourse without ICP analysis.

Iam excited to see the results stay tuned...

 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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On the P vs PO4 issue, it looks like all of the total phosphorus (11 ppb or 0.011 ppm) can be accounted for by the phosphate (0.034 ppm). Most people are getting that equivalence, so there is not a lot of organic phosphate in your water sample. The phosphate is not all that high, but if you have an algae problem, I'd look to lower it.

A number of people (but not all) have been getting elevated Tin (Sn). Yours is not as high as some, and I do not know where it is coming from. What salt mix do you use?

Slightly elevated lithium is common. Yours again is not as high as some.

Do you skim or do water changes?

I'm especially interested in why some people have massively high iodine levels and others do not. Those with the highest levels do not seem to skim or do water changes, but I'm still not sure what form it is taking. You do not have that issue. :)
 
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TheClark

TheClark

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On the P vs PO4 issue, it looks like all of the total phosphorus (11 ppb or 0.011 ppm) can be accounted for by the phosphate (0.034 ppm). Most people are getting that equivalence, so there is not a lot of organic phosphate in your water sample. The phosphate is not all that high, but if you have an algae problem, I'd look to lower it.

A number of people (but not all) have been getting elevated Tin (Sn). Yours is not as high as some, and I do not know where it is coming from. What salt mix do you use?

Slightly elevated lithium is common. Yours again is not as high as some.

Do you skim or do water changes?

I'm especially interested in why some people have massively high iodine levels and others do not. Those with the highest levels do not seem to skim or do water changes, but I'm still not sure what form it is taking. You do not have that issue. :)

Thanks for the analysis! Let me add some data to the thread for the great minds to ponder...

I use Kent Reef Salt, very common here in the Pacific Northwest.
I am a heavy skimmer, two skimmers in use on this system (450 gallons).
I have done one 100 gallon water change this year, I am not a frequent water changer at all.
This tank receives seachem reeffusion 1,2,Vinegar mixed with kalk via the doser every day. Also, for months I dosed acropower but it just ran out recently.

There were DIY LEDs over this tank for quite a while. Some have suggested that solder could be a source of Tin in the results. There is a very fair chance that a bit of solder fell in as the lights were high up and had no shield.
 
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TheClark

TheClark

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Thanks.

Yes, solder could be the source or tin if any got into the tank. :)

I sure hope not, but am trying to remain open minded to the possibility given the results and share all information that may apply. Not something I am proud of but sharing for the sake of the hobby... :)
 

Ehsan@triton

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Hey mates,

Agree 100% to Randy.
1. PO4 is calculated out of total P.
2. Tin source in Europe also are often "hose clamps" or other metal-parts close to the Water. The creeping out salt corode them and after the salt faling back the contamination can be quit massive.
3. for Iodine we have done some investigation already Randy it seems that, adding Iodine (Iodid) is ok as long as it´s close to NSW as it drops quite fast.
But reching levels over 200 it seems to stay where it is not not drop anymore.

I will try to get as much info over to you as I can.

ALl the best Ehsan
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Hey mates,

1. PO4 is calculated out of total P.

Oh, PO4 is not a different measurement than P? I thought maybe it was P by ICP and phosphate some other way. :)

3. for Iodine we have done some investigation already Randy it seems that, adding Iodine (Iodid) is ok as long as it´s close to NSW as it drops quite fast.
But reching levels over 200 it seems to stay where it is not not drop anymore.


I will try to get as much info over to you as I can.
n

Great. Looking forward to it. :)
 
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TheClark

TheClark

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Hey mates,

Agree 100% to Randy.
1. PO4 is calculated out of total P.
2. Tin source in Europe also are often "hose clamps" or other metal-parts close to the Water. The creeping out salt corode them and after the salt faling back the contamination can be quit massive.
3. for Iodine we have done some investigation already Randy it seems that, adding Iodine (Iodid) is ok as long as it´s close to NSW as it drops quite fast.
But reching levels over 200 it seems to stay where it is not not drop anymore.

I will try to get as much info over to you as I can.

ALl the best Ehsan

Thanks Eshan for weighing in on this, I am excited to learn from all this new data that is available.

Randy, cannot thank you enough for all your help!
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Thanks Eshan for weighing in on this, I am excited to learn from all this new data that is available.

Randy, cannot thank you enough for all your help!

You're very welcome.

Happy Reefing. :)
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Total Phosphate and total Iodine are two that I have always been interested in, but haven't been able to test for. With this ICP process, it appears that total P is measured, but I wonder if the reading is for all Iodine species?

Interesting to see in this water sample that very little PO4 (inorganic phosphate) is present compared to total Phosphate. Would offer an explanation as to why many people are reading '0' on their phosphate test kits, but still have colorful, healthy corals (myself included).

Yes, it is all iodine species: iodide, iodate, organoiodine compounds, even I2. :)

On the phosphorus/phosphate, those values are identical: 0.011 ppm (11 ug/L) total P = 0.034 ppm phosphate. In phosphate you count the weight of the oxygens, while in total P you do not. :)
 

Nano sapiens

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Yes, it is all iodine species: iodide, iodate, organoiodine compounds, even I2. :)

On the phosphorus/phosphate, those values are identical: 0.011 ppm (11 ug/L) total P = 0.034 ppm phosphate. In phosphate you count the weight of the oxygens, while in total P you do not. :)

Thanks, Randy. After typing this I saw that the Phosphate measurement values were not identical (ug/l vs. mg/l).

From reading your earlier article on Iodine, I gather that these Iodine species can 'morph' from one to another depending on various conditions. Quite complex!
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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From reading your earlier article on Iodine, I gather that these Iodine species can 'morph' from one to another depending on various conditions. Quite complex!

Yes, and it is the folks with more than 1 ppm (of some iodine compound) that really surprises me as I'd never before seen anyone with kit measurements that high. :)
 

Nano sapiens

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Yes, and it is the folks with more than 1 ppm (of some iodine compound) that really surprises me as I'd never before seen anyone with kit measurements that high. :)

I stopped testing for Iodine back in..oh..1990 or so :). But I have always dosed a few drops a week in all my tanks.

I'll be sending off my water sample soon, so should be interesting to see the concentrations in a 6-1/2 year old nano 12g 'natural' non-filtered tank (only Kalwasser and Iodine supplementation).
 
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TheClark

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I ran across the notion of PVC using Tin as a stabilizer. I have no background with PVC, but found it interesting...

Polyvinyl chloride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[h=4]Rigid PVC applications[edit][/h]In Europe, particularly Belgium, there has been a commitment to eliminate the use of cadmium(previously used as a part component of heat stabilizers in window profiles) and phase out lead based heat stabilizers (as used in pipe and profile areas)such as liquid autodiachromate and calcium polyhydrocummate by 2015. According to the final report of Vinyl 2010[9] cadmium was eliminated across Europe by 2007. The progressive substitution of lead-based stabilizers is also confirmed in the same document showing a reduction of 75% since 2000 and ongoing. This is confirmed by the corresponding growth in calcium-based stabilizers, used as an alternative to lead-based stabilizers, more and more, also outside Europe.
Tin based stabilizers are mainly used in Europe for rigid, transparent applications due to the high temperature processing conditions used. The situation in North America is different where tin systems are used for almost all rigid PVC applications. Tin stabilizers can be divided into two main groups, the first group containing those with tin-oxygen bonds and the second group with tin-sulphur bonds. According to the European Stabiliser producers[10] most organotin stabilisers have already been successfully REACH registered. More chemical and use information is also available on this site.
 
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TheClark

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Do you use GAC on this tank?

Any phosphate binders that may contain aluminum?

I'm wondering about the high aluminum. :)

Yes and Yes, I use GAC and Phosguard. Once my phosphate stays under control I will be switching back to GFO.
 
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TheClark

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Very interesting. The use of rigid PVC might be a cause. Maybe I'll set up some polls to see if there is a correlation. :)

If PVC is implicated in any of this... Wow that would be a big deal, definitely an eye opener. Probably not, but it is fun to see what can be learned from this new data!
 
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