Looking to make the jump, still a little hesitant

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ctyler85

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Everything I have been reading so far has me sold. I wish this had been around longer in the states so I can see some results and don't feel like I am jumping into some brand new unknown territory. Before and after pictures go a very very long way with me. I have heard that polyp extension goes crazy with the triton dosing. Is anyone seeing anything noticeable as far as coloring? Im sure its probably far to soon to tell about growth. I was originally planning on running a calcium reactor, I have all the equipment now, its just 1 ph probe and some media away from running. Here are my concerns. Cost. So far when I calculate it out, it seems like it will be about the same as doing my normal water changes and what not so It almost seems like a break even point, Im worried there is some hidden cost that I am not aware of yet, like reading another thread about needing to buy "pure salt" if one of your levels gets out of whack. The other concern I have is storage of dosing containers. Under the stand is essentially packed full. I wouldn't have any room for dosing containers. I wouldn't be able to stand having dosing containers sit next to the tank all the time, and I'm sure the girlfriend would disown me. So does anyone know how far a dosing pump would be effective for? If I could place the containers and pump in the closet a couple of feet away then I'd do it. Got a chance to talk to Jake form reef builders this weekend and he was very very supportive of jumping on this system. Is everyone having decent results? did anyone switch form calcium reactor to the triton method? or was everyone already dosing 2 part? Are the water parameters staying consistent? any one had a positive water retest yet? Triton almost sounds too good to be true, but I would like to try it, and then I look back at the calcium reactor and all the voices of everyone running one saying that growth exploded once they started running a reactor pop into my head. So let me hear what you have to say about it if you have been running it for the short time its been out
 

Keithcorals

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I can't help much because I've only truly been running the 4 part for just under a week(ran 2part before that). I can tell you that a good doser can for sure be run a few feet from the tank without a problem. I live my profilux doser it's been running for years without a problem. I'm now going to the new apex doser because I like the control through my phone or where every I may be over the net. Hope that's at least a little helpful
 

tigerdragon

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Cant speak to doing the triton method. Sounds good but justifying the cost of sending samples out to be tested makes me hesitant. I do believe that every now and then a water changes is necessary to reduce build up of certain substances that the tank doesnt always use up. If you look at the ocean its constantly exchanging water so who are we to think we can get by without doing the same. I too looked at ca reactor but could not get by the initial cost when i setup my 2 part for under what a reactor without the co2 cost. Currently i am looking at going to an automated wc setup that will exchange 1-2% water per day. For me i am leary of a no wc type sys as i have had things go very wrong very fast. My $.02 worth.
 

Vmacisback

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I was in a similar boat as you in some ways. I talked to Scott Feldman a few times and was completely sold on the Triton method. This is really without much info and pictures but the way he supported it made me a believer. After I sent in my first water sample I had to do 4 15% weekly water changes with the Pure salt...which isnt cheap. I Still have 1 more WC to do and then I will send in another sample to test.

During the last month Ive had a bit of time to think and look around the forums at anything but Triton method tanks. Though I was sold on it at first and had already purchased the Dosing liquids I came to the conclusion that it just wasnt what I wanted to do with my tank. I actually enjoy doing water changes and making tweaks to my tank, i think most of us do. Im just not sold on the fact of no water changes and the lack of info we have on the Triton method. I recently then have started to dose vinegar to reduce nitrates and growth has exploded along with water clarity and PE. I run a full SPS reef and I have tried many things but who knew the stuff I clean my pumps with (vinegar) would be the best and cheapest thing ive ever added to my tank.

In the end I am going to stick with the vinegar dosing and have sold the Trito dosing liquids to confirm my decision. I have also added and ATS which is working well and makes my skimmer only really effective a few days out of the week. I actually think I need to increase my fish load to make things better. If I were you id just wait, look at some more pictures and come to some conclusions about what your trying to do with your tank. You have the evidence on this forum that shows you you dont have to use Triton to be effective but you can can use some parts to your benefit like the water test and pure salt to get things in check. At least that's my plan.
 
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dgrigor02

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I never really considered it. I just wanted to get my water tested to see if anything alarming came back. Like most results people post here, Vanadium, molybdenum, manganese were the only ones that came back low. I had freshly mixed Instant Ocean spike with those 3 elements tested to confirm I'm not overdosed and I'm fine with that. So I'm in for $100 and may consider testing annually but that's about it. Tank is doing so well really no need to make changes to my maintenance schedule and I'm fine with the water changes and associated salt costs.
 
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ctyler85

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I wouldn't do it for the lack of water changes. I would still probably do a decent sized water change monthly. I love tinerking with my tank. But I don't think water changes are fun at all lol. There are other parts on the tank I'd rather be tinkering with rather then messing with water all the time. I've never been a fan of dosing two part which is why I went the calcium reactor route. Triton just seems like it offers a lot of the good elements that we don't really get through water changes and what not that can get used up. I guess there is always reef elements to dose. Triton just seemed like an easy standard way to get everything in one deal, and everyone talks about the insane polyp extension with one of the triton doses.
 

Triggreef

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I'm intrigued by the triton method. Some mentioned the cost of the tests as a reason not to do it. I strongly disagree, and I think that the tests may be beneficial to anyone, whether your on the triton method or not. That said they are costly, but how else can you really know whats going on? IME things can go from looking great, to crashed very fast. Just because your tank looks great today, doesn't mean that there's not something building up or something lacking that may lead to big problems down the road. Thats what happened to me, and if I never sent a sample to triton I never would have had a guess of what was actually going on.

That said, I'm not planning to test often, but a few times a year to ensure everything is staying in range???? Absolutely worth it in my opinion.

As to the additives, I can only attest to Alk mg ca right now but after a little tweaking, they are all staying in a healthy ratio of each other. My ca and mg are staying in very good shape, where as dosing the c-balance previously ca and mg were always slightly lower than I would have liked.
 
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ctyler85

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Yeah the tests are pricey, I was only planning to test maybe once a year, but Jake from reef builders suggested every quarter, which makes sense and will end up costing a little more. Honestly the price of the chemicals is cheaper then buying 2 part.
 

joefishUC

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I love reading all of these comments but I think you guys are overthinking things. The triton method isn't a religion where if you do water changes you are kicked out of the club;) The tanks just simply run better when you eliminate the fluctuations caused by doing water changes. You really have to take a step back and focus solely on the goal of any sps reefer. Ask yourself what the goal is in order to maintain a kick *** healthy, thriving, polyp pumping reef tank? Then take that goal and work backwards to figure out the smartest, most efficient method to achieve that goal. What you will have left is the triton method. The goal should be something like this:

"To create and maintain a super stable body of water that includes concentrations of the full matrix of seawater including all the macro and trace elements at values that closely resemble those found on a typical tropical coral reef. Nutrient levels that are very low, po4 approx .02ppm and nitrates under 5 ppm but both VERY stable. These water parameters should be maintained as consistently as possible 24/7/365 to ensure the least amount of energy being devoted by the coral to adaptation within this captive environment. In return for not having to micro-adapt, all stored energy can be devoted towards growth. All of this should be done on a budget that is as close to what someone would be spending on other "good" methods and be as maintenance free as possible"

If that is your goal then Triton is your best answer. Look at it this way. There is the icp testing which any reefer can use. It has really no more to do with the triton method than it does for any other reef method where you simply want to test and learn the concentrations of elements found in your water.

Then there is the base elements. There is nothing comparable to this on the market. This is a four part complete dosing formula that when used daily will delivery the full matrix of elements in correct proportions EVERY DAY. There is no need to wait for a weekly shot of trace elements from water changes or from a bottle based on observational evidence. Those are yesterday's way of doing things.

Then there is the trace elements that can be purchased separately. Most people will never need many of these. These are for people that test their water (triton method followers or not) and simply want to add things like chromium, iron, zinc, etc. Because these elements are found in such low concentrations in seawater, the icp testing can barely detect them. For some it can only detect if they are well above natural sea water. Thinking that you NEED to dose all of these elements individually as part of the triton method is false.

The biggest obstacle we encounter from people about the triton method is about the lack of water changes. Quite frankly, if your water is testing all greens on the icp results and your corals look great than don't stop doing what you are doing! Keep it up. For people that aren't so lucky, and there are a lot of them out there, the Triton method is a proven formula for effectively keeping sps corals with minimal maintenance in closed aquaria. It uses a strongly lit algae filter (think refugium) to maintain the balance of nitrates and organic compounds, phosphate removing media for assisted po4 control, 24/7 skimming and carbon and thats basically it. Once the tank reaches a biological balance, the waste is broken down by bacteria, consumed by algae and corals, removed by skimming and carbon and resulting nutrient balance coupled with the rock steady supply of elements results in corals that have consistently good water to grow. It really is that simple. You can also call us at the shop for more info- I love teaching people about it. By the way- we are now dosing 5 of our 10,000 gallon raceways at UC and the colors, vitality and growth is obvious. :)
 

joefishUC

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A couple more things to ponder- Regarding success with calcium reactors- A calcium reactor is really just a neat tool for dissolving the skeletons of coral back into seawater. Whatever the coral skeleton is made of will then be put back into the water in somewhat equal proportions to the uptake needs of living corals. A minor problem is that the reactor is only as good as the media used inside it. Media also will not replenish all of the trace elements needed so additional dosing is recommended. Some elements are used for biological functions and not for building the aragonite skeletons so they aren't present to dissolve back into the system. Other elements are also used by algae, sponges, bacteria, etc that won't be supplied by the ca reactor. This again puts an emphasis on supplying additional elements through either dosing or water changes with a good salt. When you look at the combined effort to reach "the goal" and compare it to an all-in-one product like the Base Elementz, the simple fact remains that dosing one set of liquids is easier than the ca reactor/water change/dosing regimen. It is more predictable, has less variables (not all salt and ca media is the same) and therefore provides results that are more easily reproducible. For larger tanks, ca reactors really do pay off over time and Destaco makes a media that is batch tested by Triton to ensure that it is pure and as contaminant free as possible. On a tank of say 500 gallons or more, over time, a good reactor will save money over the Base Elementz. Manual additions of trace elements is recommended aided by icp testing.

Can you incorporate some of the benefits and insights of The Triton Method on an existing setup that was not designed as a Triton Method tank? Yes you can. Can you integrate ICP water testing and element dosing with water changes, calcium reactors and kalkwasser dosing? Sure you can. In the end, this is a fun hobby and a great learning experience. Just because one system works does not by default mean that all others do not. Triton takes pride in knowing that the pillars of its Method are not that original. In my eyes, what makes Triton original is that it truly focuses on the needs of the corals by trying to replicate the level of stability found on natural coral reefs. It aims to achieve this challenging task by supporting the power of nature with cutting edge science and neatly wrapping it all in the minimalist of ways. When these goals are most effectively done, the path of least resistance is best expressed.
 

gpwdr

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Thanks Joe!

The only variable I'm running into with the Triton Method is trying to keep a constant water level in the sump with ATO for the evaporation. There is a fluctuation of @ 4 gallons of water in a 110 gallon system. The skimmer water level fluctuates thus so does the performance.
Any suggestions?

Gene
 

joefishUC

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Greg- Is there a way you can make the ATO more precise so it fills sooner than letting that much evaporation leave the system? If not, I wouldn't worry too much about it but it would stabilize the skimmer function and that is important. Be sure to monitor your salinity as Triton tanks can see a slow rise in this their skimmer isn't pulling out enough water. The constant addition of elements into the system needs balancing out by some form of removal be it skimming or a calculated slow drip out of the system.
 

JDP

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There is a fluctuation of @ 4 gallons of water in a 110 gallon system.

Hey Gene, Just a thought...4gal all at once, in my mind, is like a 4% WC with straight RO/DI not to mention the salinity swing. You may try creating a separate chamber for your return pump by, again just a thought:

Using a sheet of acrylic cut to fit front to back of your sump. leave enough size tolerance to use Nylon or Silicon tubing cut long ways in order to place as a trim around the new acrylic. Press the new chamber wall in place to make new chamber as small as desired. Do not worry about a perfect seal. Your pump should draw more water than the leak (by the tubing pieces). Move your ATO switch to the new chamber. This will stabilize the water level for your Skimmer and reduce your top off reservoir size:smile:

Hope this helps? John
 
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ctyler85

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I think at this point my biggest obstacle or road block to jumping on triton is the dosing situation. I am racking my brain trying to figure out where I would keep dosing containers. I dont have the room under they tank. This tank stand is literally a very high quality piece of furniture and I like to keep it that way and keep the clean look in the room. I really don't want to store dosing containers out in the open in the room, especially with 3 rambunctious dogs running around. The only thing I can think of is somehow storing the containers on top of the canopy but I dont think there is enough room there either. All the water change and top off supplies and systems are located in a closet across the room and we are in the process of plumbing everything in under the ground and up into the bottom of the stand. Once I can figure out where to place the dosing containers I'm probably going to sell the calcium reactor set up and make the jump.
 

Sangheili

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I think at this point my biggest obstacle or road block to jumping on triton is the dosing situation. I am racking my brain trying to figure out where I would keep dosing containers. I dont have the room under they tank. This tank stand is literally a very high quality piece of furniture and I like to keep it that way and keep the clean look in the room. I really don't want to store dosing containers out in the open in the room, especially with 3 rambunctious dogs running around. The only thing I can think of is somehow storing the containers on top of the canopy but I dont think there is enough room there either. All the water change and top off supplies and systems are located in a closet across the room and we are in the process of plumbing everything in under the ground and up into the bottom of the stand. Once I can figure out where to place the dosing containers I'm probably going to sell the calcium reactor set up and make the jump.

Some ideas: If you have a connected room on the other side of the wall you may be able to go through the wall - this is what I have done. If you have space beside the stand you could search for some piece of furniture or decoration that is hollow (such as an ottoman) and place the container inside it. You could also possibly utilize the space saving style dosing containers or have something custom built to fill any tiny space you have.
 
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ctyler85

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Some ideas: If you have a connected room on the other side of the wall you may be able to go through the wall - this is what I have done. If you have space beside the stand you could search for some piece of furniture or decoration that is hollow (such as an ottoman) and place the container inside it. You could also possibly utilize the space saving style dosing containers or have something custom built to fill any tiny space you have.
I was actually thinking about this a lot yesterday, the only other room on the other side of the wall is the kitchen, I was trying to decide how bad we really need that cabinet space, but then I'd be drilling through an external cinder block wall to get to the cabinet (it's not what you think, it's kinda hard to explain) the tank is 84" on an 86" wall so I thought about using a book shelf on the side wall to store the containers, but then in order for the stand doors to open, I'd have to place that bookshelf 30" away from the stand, then I think I'm out of range of the dosing pumps. I guess maybe I should do a build thread
 

Sangheili

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I was actually thinking about this a lot yesterday, the only other room on the other side of the wall is the kitchen, I was trying to decide how bad we really need that cabinet space, but then I'd be drilling through an external cinder block wall to get to the cabinet (it's not what you think, it's kinda hard to explain) the tank is 84" on an 86" wall so I thought about using a book shelf on the side wall to store the containers, but then in order for the stand doors to open, I'd have to place that bookshelf 30" away from the stand, then I think I'm out of range of the dosing pumps. I guess maybe I should do a build thread

Most dosing systems should handle that distance fine I would think. You could do some enclosed bookcase and stick the doser/containers inside it and then run the dosing lines inside a wire management loom to the tank along the floor. Not ideal but it would probably work.

Build thread would be good :bigsmile:
 

kidtango

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Cant speak to doing the triton method. Sounds good but justifying the cost of sending samples out to be tested makes me hesitant. I do believe that every now and then a water changes is necessary to reduce build up of certain substances that the tank doesnt always use up. If you look at the ocean its constantly exchanging water so who are we to think we can get by without doing the same. I too looked at ca reactor but could not get by the initial cost when i setup my 2 part for under what a reactor without the co2 cost. Currently i am looking at going to an automated wc setup that will exchange 1-2% water per day. For me i am leary of a no wc type sys as i have had things go very wrong very fast. My $.02 worth.

Are you serious? The cost of sending out a test every month makes you hesitant? Why? It's $50. Once things are dialed in you do not have to test every month if you dont want to. Almost all of us do not test our water this way now.... So even once every 3 months is a vast improvement! I do not mind testing every month. I guess the value of our corals and the overall health of our tanks can vary from people to people. My tank worth ALOT more than $50 or even $100 per month to me.

Some of us if not alot of us spend way more money on salt mix and RODI filters per month than the elementz solutions + test. Anyhow, it's a matter of opinion and subjective values. I personally think it is the best method in reef keeping for ME. I have been dosing for 3 weeks now and things are looking awesome.

Kid
 
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ctyler85

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I like to hear from people that are seeing results. Specially if they can see an improvement in a month or so
 
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