Latest Triton Results and where to go from here.

[slojmn]

Triton results for my 120g reef tank

This is my third test in 6 months on my 120g reef tank. I have been losing SPS and zoas for 18 months now,mostly STN from the base up, some RTN. LPS and, nems, fish and shrooms all pretty good. I decided to do the first Triton test because I knew something was terribly wrong, just didn't know what. The Tin and Aluminum have not abated at all with all of my interventions since that first Triton test. No amount of dilution is helping. BTW, Freshly made salt water tests great in the "Heavy Metals" department, no tin, no aluminum. So now, 6 months later the tin is higher than ever, it was 42 in November, now up to 89. I have swapped out all equipment except my heater, its on the way. I have checked all of my wires to apex, temp, ph, etc. I have found nothing but the steel stand flaking off into my sump, I figure that was happening for quite a while. I covered the sump 5 months ago so that has been taken care of. Although it might still be contributing to my tin levels. No one can even hazard a guess as to where all the tin and aluminum is coming from. I used TLF MetalSorb just to see if it would help. It doesn't seem to have made much of a difference.

I use ESV salt so the high Li, B,Sr, and Br is attributed to that salt mix. The Li is now off the charts as well, building up with regular water changes, I'm sure. I believe it's the metals that have done in many of my SPS. A thriving SPS reef is now a lot of rock and and a couple of SPS tester frags to see what is happening. I just did a water change using the Triton salt, 50 liters of water is about 13g so I am not really sure what that will do for my 120g reef.

Where do I go from here? I would like to use the Triton method and cut down on my water changes. Alk is in line and has been stable for a long time, 8 months at least, ca is a bit low but coming in line. The only problem are these heavy metals. Do I just go ahead and start the method using Base Elementz or do I do some massive water changes in hopes of diluting the heavy metals? I was thinking two 60g water changes over a couple of days and send in a sample to Triton to see if it worked. I know that is a lot of water change action but it might be the only way to get the tin and aluminum in line to start the Base Elementz.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Below are the results of my Freshly made Saltwater using ESV 4-part salt- Not all is hunky dory with the results, I've definitely got some elevated components from the ESV Salt but those heavy metals are all 0. I cannot decide what salt to go with, just stick with ESV or try a different brand to dilute the heavy metals. So many decisions to make!!!!

 

[swk]

Have you checked your source water - your RODI unit all good to go? That's the first thing that comes to mind after reading your post and all you have done. Didn't see any mention of your RO unit.

 

[dankreef]

She tested the new water and it was clean no metals. I would say the heavy metals are hurting you for sure. So obviously its not the equipment since its all new. What are you feeding? No metal fasterners on hoses in sump or anything metal touching water? Sorry to hear about your troubles oh:

Also nothing metal fell in tank for sure that could be rusting?

 

[jt17]

I am just starting the triton method so I'm no expert. I didn't see mention of GAC. have you tried a high quality carbon like BRS ROX? Also Triton makes a detox for heavy metal export, maybe that product would be more effective. It would just be a bandaid though until we determine where the source is but would at least bring some relief to your reef.

 

[badfinger]

Where do you live? Any chance you live by a heavy polluting industrial area that your skimmer is pulling in heavy metals from the air?

It might be a long shot but figured i would throw it out there

 

[slojmn]

She tested the new water and it was clean no metals. I would say the heavy metals are hurting you for sure. So obviously its not the equipment since its all new. What are you feeding? No metal fasterners on hoses in sump or anything metal touching water? Sorry to hear about your troubles oh:

Also nothing metal fell in tank for sure that could be rusting?

There is a metal fastener on a bendable piece of tubing hanging over the sump. It looks a bit rusty so I'll swap that out for sure. I really an wondering if the cumulative affect of the steel stand flaking into the sump for an extended amount of time is the culprit and somehow its still getting in there despite my cover, that isn't completely covering things. I plan to have a good cover made at TAP Plastics this week

I searched for anything that may have fallen into the tank or sump, I removed all sand and 60% of the rock for cleaning. I found nothing. I looked in my overflow, nothing that I could see. I have not removed the sump from under the stand and fully cleaned it. That is next!!! It is a big job with all of the plumbing and such. I'll need a little help but its been on the list to do.
I have been doing things systematically over the last 8 months so I'll know when I hit the culprit. I was saving the removal and cleaning of the sump once I had replaced all equipment.

I am just starting the triton method so I'm no expert. I didn't see mention of GAC. have you tried a high quality carbon like BRS ROX? Also Triton makes a detox for heavy metal export, maybe that product would be more effective. It would just be a bandaid though until we determine where the source is but would at least bring some relief to your reef.

I have been running ZEO carbon for the past 3 months changing it out every 2-3 weeks. no such luck in getting the heavy metal numbers down.
I agree, finding the source is really important or its just going to keep being a problemn

Where do you live? Any chance you live by a heavy polluting industrial area that your skimmer is pulling in heavy metals from the air?

It might be a long shot but figured i would throw it out there

Thanks for thinking of everything and anything . We live in a quiet neighborhood with no industrial pollutants around. I have wodnered about the hair spray every morning in the bathroom which is about 10 feet from the tank, so we started spraying it in a different direction with the fans on to pull it up and out the intake. So far, it doesn't seem to be the culprit.

 

[swk]

What is the history of the Rock and sand in the tank? Purchased new?

 

[Sangheili]

So all the things I was going to recommend it seems you have done.

That Tin/Al has to come from somewhere. Maybe you have some rust inside pumps? Magnets? Maybe there is a screw sitting inside your sump rusting out?

Very odd predicament your in, I hope we can figure it out :smile:

I would personally keep up with water changes until you can find the source of the heavy metals. Stopping water changes will probably only lead to much higher levels via less dilution.

 

[gpwdr]

I followed the directions on the Triton Error correction sheet. Where the correction sheet recommends water changes with Pure, it was expensive, but it worked. I haven't been doing water changes and the original problems didn't come back. So what I'm saying is some of the problems came from other products. Could even be some foods.
Follow the correction sheet and use the Triton products.
Gene

 

[slojmn]

What is the history of the Rock and sand in the tank? Purchased new?

The rock has been with me for a number of years, some Marco, some live rock from LFS a few years back, and a few new pieces last year when I had someone do an aquascape using Emaco to bond the rocks. Its awesome. I was well into issues before he did the build for me. Just to be safe I soaked most of the rock, about 60% in Muriatic acid and pulled out all sand and replaced. I use ReefFlakes.

So all the things I was going to recommend it seems you have done.

That Tin/Al has to come from somewhere. Maybe you have some rust inside pumps? Magnets? Maybe there is a screw sitting inside your sump rusting out?

Very odd predicament your in, I hope we can figure it out :smile:

I would personally keep up with water changes until you can find the source of the heavy metals. Stopping water changes will probably only lead to much higher levels via less dilution.

All pumps have been replaced. Just waiting on a heater to replace the one I hadn't already replaced. I checked all probes and cleaned them in vinegar. They all look good.

I followed the directions on the Triton Error correction sheet. Where the correction sheet recommends water changes with Pure, it was expensive, but it worked. I haven't been doing water changes and the original problems didn't come back. So what I'm saying is some of the problems came from other products. Could even be some foods.
Follow the correction sheet and use the Triton products.
Gene

I just did a water change with Triton Pure, it was only 13g (50 liters) so I am not sure how much that will help. Especially if I cannot find the source. I decided to get Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt instead of ESV this go around and see what happens to my numbers in the next month or so. I may do one more Triton Pure Salt water change as well. I will hold off on the Base Elementz until I see the tin and aluminum numbers come down. I hope to pull my sump this weekend and clean it thoroughly. We'll see if I find anything suspicious.

I am wondering about the food, which is a pretty assorted group of things that I probably wont change as my fish are all healthy and happy, and the BRS dosing stuff. I have always wondered about the dosing stuff. Prior to thinking about doing Triton I was considering getting away from the BRS product and trying the ESV product. I use to use B-ionic years ago and all was well then.

 

[SPSREEFS]

A THOUGHT....CHECK ALL IMPELLERS, AND IMPELLER SHAFTS IN ALL PUMPS!!! THEY CORRODE ALL THE TIME!! Are you happy with the Triton testing? Thinking about having my water tested. Do they test it in Van Nuys, California??? Or is it sent to Germany?
I service tanks for a living and find corroding impellers and shafts ALL THE TIME!!! IF its not that, you may have a pump getting water into places where it should not be getting into.
Hope this helps!

 

[slojmn]

A THOUGHT....CHECK ALL IMPELLERS, AND IMPELLER SHAFTS IN ALL PUMPS!!! THEY CORRODE ALL THE TIME!! Are you happy with the Triton testing? Thinking about having my water tested. Do they test it in Van Nuys, California??? Or is it sent to Germany?
I service tanks for a living and find corroding impellers and shafts ALL THE TIME!!! IF its not that, you may have a pump getting water into places where it should not be getting into.
Hope this helps!

I am not sure if you read my original post at the top but all pumps and powerheads have been replaced. All brand new within last 6 weeks , Gyre pump added late December. New vortech will be added this weekend.

 

[jt17]

Any updates? I just got my first triton results back and I too have elevated tin and aluminum.

 

[slojmn]

Any updates? I just got my first triton results back and I too have elevated tin and aluminum.

The only update I have is that most of the sps tester frags/mini colonies I put in the system are showing the same old base up recession after being in the system for a month. It is very slow and a few frags are still fine. All frags/mini colonies have great polyp extension and look healthy except for the white creep up the bases. I did two very large water changes using new salt, Tropic Marin Pro Reef, one on Saturday and one on Tuesday, 55g and 45g respectively. I immediately noticed a film of brown algae on my sand bed. I had a little bit along with some green cyano prior but it was only about 20% of sand bed. within 24 hours of using the TM Pro-Reef salt it was everywhere. Hopefully that will settle out in time. I am sending in a water sample today and then one in one month. I am completely gutting my sump and cleaning it outside of the stand. If there is rusty pieces in the sump still it may be the culprit. I am having a cover made for the sump so the rusty stand cannot get in there so easily. In one month I will re-test the water and HOPE the tin and aluminum is either the same or even less than today's water sample. Then I will go from there.

 

[hatfielj]

Hey, how's your tank doing? I feel your pain with the unexplainable losses. I've been through similar events before.

My current tank just went through a mini-STN crisis. I'm pretty convinced its because I wasn't feeding my corals at all and I wasn't feeding my fish enough either. I started dosing red sea's coral nutrition products and feeding oyster eggs and coral frenzy regularly and the STN stopped. Things aren't back to 100% though. I've also swapped out my lighting set up and some of the corals are ticked off I think because of all the sudden changes. I'm hoping things settle down as everything adapts and the parameters settle back down. But, it can be really really frustrating.

 

[Gondore]

Have you dipped for acro eating flatworms? They can cause acros to stn from the bottom up like that.

 

[slojmn]

Hey, how's your tank doing? I feel your pain with the unexplainable losses. I've been through similar events before.

My current tank just went through a mini-STN crisis. I'm pretty convinced its because I wasn't feeding my corals at all and I wasn't feeding my fish enough either. I started dosing red sea's coral nutrition products and feeding oyster eggs and coral frenzy regularly and the STN stopped. Things aren't back to 100% though. I've also swapped out my lighting set up and some of the corals are ****** off I think because of all the sudden changes. I'm hoping things settle down as everything adapts and the parameters settle back down. But, it can be really really frustrating.

Glad to hear you have figured things out with your tank. My corals are not starved in any way. I have a nice group of fish that stay well fed. I am awaiting my most recent Triton water sample results. I am still seeing some base recession on a few frags, but a few are encrusting and doing well. I think there is still enough of the tin/aluminum in the water to cause stress. Slowly but surely I am seeing positive progress though. The brown coating on the sand that i had when I changed salt brands has disappeared. Some of my LPS that were looking unhappy this past year are thriving and looking great. The most recent Triton results from early May showed a drop in Tin from 89 (results that I posted to start this thread) to 40, I had hoped it would be down in the 20's given the water changes I had performed, but still, that is something. Since then I have done another round of large water changes so I am hopeful to see the number even lower when I get my latest results in the next week or so. Alk has been rock steady for a long time, calcium jumped up when I changed salt brands so I have been tweaking my dosing pump in the last few weeks to find the sweet spot to keep the calcium at 425, Mag also jumped with the new salt. Mag has always been fine in my tank without dosing.

Have you dipped for acro eating flatworms? They can cause acros to stn from the bottom up like that.

Thanks for thinking of that. I've had the dreaded AEFW in the past and beat them. I know exactly what the damage looks like. This is not that but I have been very careful about examining my acropora regularly for any signs of any kind of pests. It is definitely not pest damage. I really do believe the tank has suffered from heavy metal poisoning slowly over time until it built up to the high numbers I saw in Triton testing late last year, by then I had lost a lot and my large sps colonies were slowly withering away. I am hopeful that I am on the right track now and over the next 6-8 months the unwanted heavy metals, tin and anything else I don't know about, will continue to drop with water changes and the cleaning of the sump, covering of the sump, and major scraping of all of the rust from the underside of the stand. My new plan is to remove the sump every 6-8 months and completely clean it and deal with any rust build up on the stand when the sump is removed for cleaning. This should take care of any future problems. In the meantime I am sending in water samples to Triton every 4-6 weeks to see the progress on getting the tin numbers down in the 0-5 range. I'll update this thread when I get my latest results.

 

[Triggreef]

I apologize I'm very late to this party. Have you done the Triton Detox??? It works quite well to remove those heavy metals. I used it twice and never had any issues with other parzmeters, only the heavy metals gone.

I had similar issues with acros and lps and it took a long time to figure it out. The metals I had were copper and very high zinc. The way it was entering my system was from slacking on changing RO filters, combined with daily feedings of live black worms. The worms were not the problem, the problem was that I was using tap water to keep the worms in and overtime from evaporation, those metals were building up in the worm water which was then going into my tank.

Either way, the problem was fixed with triton detox. Basically you turn off your carbon and skimmer for a couple days, let the detox work, then turn those on to remove the metals and the detox.

Good luck with your tank. Also, after removing the metals it took a month or two for things to get better and begin growing again.

 

[slojmn]

I apologize I'm very late to this party. Have you done the Triton Detox??? It works quite well to remove those heavy metals. I used it twice and never had any issues with other parzmeters, only the heavy metals gone.

I had similar issues with acros and lps and it took a long time to figure it out. The metals I had were copper and very high zinc. The way it was entering my system was from slacking on changing RO filters, combined with daily feedings of live black worms. The worms were not the problem, the problem was that I was using tap water to keep the worms in and overtime from evaporation, those metals were building up in the worm water which was then going into my tank.

Either way, the problem was fixed with triton detox. Basically you turn off your carbon and skimmer for a couple days, let the detox work, then turn those on to remove the metals and the detox.

Good luck with your tank. Also, after removing the metals it took a month or two for things to get better and begin growing again.

Thanks so much for replying. Interesting about the live black worms. I had been feeding those all through 2013 and well into 2014 for a few of my fish that loved them. I have not tried Triton Detox. I've been tempted but Joe from Unique Corals said it would not address the tin. Nothing in the industry at this time will remove tin. However, I have funky water at my house and even though it goes through a 6-stage system I have always been a little concerned about other heavy metals....maybe a round of Detox couldn't hurt. I did try MetalSorb in early 2015, a Two Little Fishies product. I left it in the tank for a few months. It didn't hurt but hard to know what it did. I don't always run carbon but if I get the Detox I'll pop it on the tank for the after party.

 

[Triggreef]

Didn't realize there is no way to remove tin. That really sucks. Sorry to hear the troubles. I lost many nice acro colonies myself, it is heart breaking especially after putting in the year plus it takes to grow a nice colony only to watch it disappear in days or over night.