Another mandarin thread

[DLHDesign]

Summary: Added Gillian "Orange Chicken" to the DT about a week ago and he's not looking so good. Thinner than he has been, and now he's loosing coloration around his head:

The white dots are from sediment stirred up form me trying a target-feeding; none of those are permanent. Also; the glass in that corner is a bit dirty (I've not wanted to disturb his corner), so his face came out a bit more "fuzzy" in the picture than it actually is.

Discoloration is around the "eyebrow" and left edge of the "A" orange strip (near the gills). When viewed from above (hard to picture), his head seems about twice as wide as his body.

He doesn't seem to eat a lot - if at all. In the QT, I tried a bunch of different options and it seemed that Cyclopod+ was the thing that worked best. He was putting on weight before the transfer from QT to DT (RS 525xl).
The DT is a bit more than 4 months old (so yes; still young - I didn't know until after we had him what was best for mandarins; my bad -sad face-). During this time (mostly in the last month), I've added in four batches of tiger pods and three of the 16oz tisbe pods to the refugium (which has a lot of chaeto growth). I've been target-feeding him the Cyclopod+ in between the rock and glass in the pic as it seems that's a fairly quite flow zone where the food can settle.

Water params are normal and none of the other fishes - including ones he was in QT with - appear to be having issues (all eat well and actively swim, no parasites, etc.).

I'm thinking at this point that his problem is almost certainly a lack of available food in the DT. I assume my next step is to try different foods again - eg; breed and feed (via Paul B's feeder) some brine shrimp to see if he'll take that now (he did not before).

If that makes sense; should I try to remove him from the DT in order to be able to feed him better? Or leave him in there in order to disturb him as little as possible? I've got other fish in QT right now, so don't really have a good tank for him to go into, but I can go pick one up if that will give him more of a chance...?

Is there anything else that I could do here? Short of looking to re-home him, of course (which is an option - the LFS seems able to keep mandarins in their displays, so I'm pretty sure they would take him).

 

[melypr1985]

He's extremely emaciated. Even target feeding him every day wont be enough to have him put on weight. He needs to eat constantly. If you can, get some more pods - a bunch of them- and dump them directly in the display. Hopefully he's able to eat enough to save himself.

 

[DLHDesign]

Thanks; I've got two more 16oz on the way (no LFS have them), so hopefully they get here in time. :-\

Should I extract him into a floating Kritter Keeper once the pods are here so that I can get them a bit more concentrated around him (and keep the other fishes and inverts from eating as many of them), you think?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks; I've got two more 16oz on the way (no LFS have them), so hopefully they get here in time. :-\

Should I extract him into a floating Kritter Keeper once the pods are here so that I can get them a bit more concentrated around him (and keep the other fishes and inverts from eating as many of them), you think?

It might be a good idea to take some chaeto out of your refugium and shake it out into your DT to try and get as many pods in there as possible.

 

[Leslie Tabor]

What other fish do you have? If you have fish like some wrasses they will out compete your mandy...they eat really slow...they inspect the food before they eat it.

 

[Leslie Tabor]

I think some of the best advice I got when I got my pair was to relax and not chase them all over trying to target feed. I think extra stress is the last thing your guy needs. I would just get as many pods directly into you DT as you can asap and hope he can get enough to turn around. You cant force him to eat.

 

[DLHDesign]

It might be a good idea to take some chaeto out of your refugium and shake it out into your DT to try and get as many pods in there as possible.

Great idea! I've got a ~1ft ball of chaeto in my fuge - past time to harvest it, in fact.
What about actually moving him down into the fuge itself? There's flow, light, and - presumably - food...?

@Leslie Tabor - no wrasses. Clowns, anthias, a blenny, a hawkfish, a cardinal. Besides that; snails and crabs. The one hermit crab in the tank came over to "clean up" the pods after a bit, so that's going to be the worst competition, I think.
Thanks for the advice - I've been watching and trying not to do anything drastic, but I think some form of intervention is needed at this point.

 

[Brew12]

Great idea! I've got a ~1ft ball of chaeto in my fuge - past time to harvest it, in fact.
What about actually moving him down into the fuge itself? There's flow, light, and - presumably - food...?

@Leslie Tabor - no wrasses. Clowns, anthias, a blenny, a hawkfish, a cardinal. Besides that; snails and crabs. The one hermit crab in the tank came over to "clean up" the pods after a bit, so that's going to be the worst competition, I think.
Thanks for the advice - I've been watching and trying not to do anything drastic, but I think some form of intervention is needed at this point.

I don't know enough about Mandy's. Will they do ok without the sand bed?

 

[melypr1985]

I don't know enough about Mandy's. Will they do ok without the sand bed?

They would be fine without the sand. the most important thing here is food. He needs a constant, steady supply of pods to eat on all day long.

 

[DLHDesign]

I don't know enough about Mandy's. Will they do ok without the sand bed?

Seemed to do okay in the month of QT without sand... Not sure if that's "proof" of anything or not, however.
I think I'll hold off on any sort of extraction just yet. Ideally he gets to stay in the DT in the end, of course.

 

[DLHDesign]

So I moved Gillian into a hatchery and seeded it with more copepods. I also added in some chaeto. It seems to be helping - he's eating, though it's too soon to see results.

 

[Dancingmad]

I bet that box + chaeto + frequent tiny target feedings (don't taint the box, brooo!) will be great. Shoot, I would double whatever live foods you got on order for the long haul. Mandarin's sole concern is to cruise around every waking hour looking for delicious pods to eat(they always seem so determined IMO), and look awesome doing it! Wish you the best of luck!

 

[DLHDesign]

The box actually has a small draw from the DT. It's slight, but is enough to change the water out every few hours.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

What about actually moving him down into the fuge itself? There's flow, light, and - presumably - food...?

aag. sorry man. I think if the sump is safe and he doesn't get sucked up into any thing you'll be better off. Mandys really do need to be Qt differently IMO. the qt is also to condition them. theyre not like fish in their behaviour and it takes a lot longer and the glass box qt with tube is really stressful on them. qt is observation and internal parasite worry but its mostly conditioning to eat. fish will suck up most everything. these guys are specialists. they eat tiny bugs and worms that move out of nooks and crannys. . and dont want anything we have frozen. so if hes in a comfortable less stressful spot in the sump fuge he can swim and see food running around, he may go for it.

 

[clownfish chris]

Try live black worms. I have heard they love them.

 

[Humblefish]

Try live black worms. I have heard they love them.

My pair goes nuts over them. The thing with mandarins is they need a ridiculous amount of food in order to thrive. You better have pods, pods & more pods in a large aquarium. Supplemental feeding will only get you so far with these animals since they need to eat constantly.

 

[DLHDesign]

Sad to report that he did not make it through the night. :-(

I feel horrible. I've learned a lot, but am not happy at the cost. Perhaps the most important thing I've learned is to understand my fish better before I get them - which includes knowing the danger signs to look for.

Thanks everyone for all the help. Really appreciate your efforts to do so.

 

[Humblefish]

Sad to report that he did not make it through the night. :-(

I feel horrible. I've learned a lot, but am not happy at the cost. Perhaps the most important thing I've learned is to understand my fish better before I get them - which includes knowing the danger signs to look for.

Thanks everyone for all the help. Really appreciate your efforts to do so.

So sorry to hear this man.

 

[justingraham]

Sorry dude.
My first time around in reefing I lost a Mandy. I had researched and everything. I had my own pods cultivating and everything. Mandy's are tough I think I stressed him to death in qt and when I put him in the display it was just to late. I love this fish so much in fact it's prolly the reason I got into the hobby. But since that first one i lost I have not attempted to put another one in because this time around I want to make sure everything is fine before I buy him. In this hobby sometimes fish will have to die in order for us to learn and grow and as sad as that is and as mean as it sounds it is the truth. I'm sorry about ur loss but just learn from it so it wasnt for nothing. Keep ur head up buddy.

 

[TherealplexiG]

Anyone trying to feed mandrin should go through @Paul B literature regarding mandrin feeder n bbs hatchery.
Btw paul is the one who has kept mandrins successfully long term..his mandrins are fat like an elephant.
Ignore typos...too lazy to correct.

HTH..