Anthias help.

Fenzinna · Dec 21, 2016

I acquired six resplendent Anthias about 10 days ago from LA. All we're doing fine with the exception of not having a big appetite. They've all eaten and none we hiding over the course of the first week.

One developed a swim bladder problem and died. He would hide in pvc pipes to give himself rest and would float to the top when he wasn't in a pvc pipe. I'd imagine stress got him.

Now, I have a second fish that has developed an issue. I found it hiding in a corner this morning. One of the Anthias had white stringy poop, I have treated the tank with prazi but only one dose.

Things that I have done:
5 day treatment of CP(interrupted this to dose prazi)
Prazi- one dose
I've done 25% water changes everyday(admittedly, the SG isn't exactly the same but within .002 of QT water for 25% changes)
My feedings have been very small amounts of frozen cyclops and roe. Just the tip(1mm) of a spoon per feeding.

Today, because of the lethargy symptoms, I dosed CP again along with Furan-2.

Tank is a 20L. 5pvc elbows. Airstone. Heater. Powerhead. Some ceramic media from display.

I'm not sure of what else to do here. They've never displayed aggressive feeding and the appetite seems to be diminishing. I have had shy evansi's that successfully made it through QT. They were eating but only when I left the room and watched from a hallway. They also hid in the elbows when I was around. These Anthias don't hide from me but don't seem to be all that interested in food.

I've tried a mix of mysis, sp brine, cyclops. That didn't interest them much more. I did live brine and they didn't seem to care. All food has been soaked in selco. So this leads me to believe there is something else goes on. I have not seen ich. I'd imagine velvet would've killed by now. No visible sores, etc.

What do you think is going on here?

Brew12 · Dec 21, 2016

Have you tested for ammonia?

Humblefish · Dec 21, 2016

I would immediately remove CP from the QT, as anthias are now on my "do not use with CP" list until further research can be done.

Fenzinna · Dec 21, 2016

Humblefish said:
I would immediately remove CP from the QT, as anthias are now on my "do not use with CP" list until further research can be done.

My previous evansi's made it through without issue. They actually didn't show any issue at all until I dosed prazi this round.

As for ammonia, I haven't been testing for it since I dosed CP and read that it messes with the ammonia tests. I have been doing 5gal water changes daily and on Sunday I did multiple 50% water changes to purge the system from Prazi.

melypr1985 · Dec 21, 2016

Fenzinna said:
My previous evansi's made it through without issue. They actually didn't show any issue at all until I dosed prazi this round.

As for ammonia, I haven't been testing for it since I dosed CP and read that it messes with the ammonia tests. I have been doing 5gal water changes daily and on Sunday I did multiple 50% water changes to purge the system from Prazi.

Get an ammonia alert badge by seachem to monitor ammonia in real time. If it's ever anything but yellow, do a water change. They work very well in the presence of medications.

For intestinal worms I would recommend metroplex instead of prazi. It's best to feed it to them but if they arn't eating well for you then it may be better to just dose the QT with it. Of course, we don't want to do too many meds at once especially if they are weak and lethargic. I agree with Humble... remove the CP... give them a few days and see if you can get them eating a little better. If they don't show symptoms of anything else, then dose the metroplex and take care of the one thing you KNOW is happening to them (intestinal worms).

4FordFamily · Dec 21, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Get an ammonia alert badge by seachem to monitor ammonia in real time. If it's ever anything but yellow, do a water change. They work very well in the presence of medications.

For intestinal worms I would recommend metroplex instead of prazi. It's best to feed it to them but if they arn't eating well for you then it may be better to just dose the QT with it. Of course, we don't want to do too many meds at once especially if they are weak and lethargic. I agree with Humble... remove the CP... give them a few days and see if you can get them eating a little better. If they don't show symptoms of anything else, then dose the metroplex and take care of the one thing you KNOW is happening to them (intestinal worms).

Agree on all counts

Fenzinna · Dec 21, 2016

Got home tonight. All five are swimming together. Food interests seems higher. I'll need to try and find metro.

Not sure if something else was going on or not but they do seem better today.

Metro is next.

Fenzinna · Dec 21, 2016

I can't get a good photo of it but the belly of one seems like it curves into the fish. Not pinched from the sides but from the bottom.

Worms?

Humblefish · Dec 21, 2016

Fenzinna said:
I can't get a good photo of it but the belly of one seems like it curves into the fish. Not pinched from the sides but from the bottom.

Worms?

Possibly; but could also just be malnutrition. You should see white stringy poop if the fish has intestinal worms.

Fenzinna · Dec 22, 2016

Humblefish said:
Possibly; but could also just be malnutrition. You should see white stringy poop if the fish has intestinal worms.

So, I didn't have access to Metro last night because of how late it was. I did a 25% water change this morning and did the second dose of Furan-2. The same anthias was hiding again this morning and decided he would swim directly into the powder being added to the tank as in the directions. Well, this clearly didn't go well and he was no longer swimming normal. He went into shock and then finally began swimming in spirals. The spirals continue every now and then but he is breathing very slowly and every now and then sputters like he's choking. He's also laying on his side and bent around almost in a C shape. I'm 100% sure he will be dead when I return home today. I plan on picking up Metro and Focus on the way home. Three of the other 4 seem to be 100%. One of the four seemed to be hiding in the corner every now and then.

For tomorrow, I think I'll do a tank transfer if possible to 100% fresh salt water and begin feeding metro.

Humblefish · Dec 22, 2016

@Fenzinna Wow, so sorry to hear that. I'm wondering if some of the undissolved powder got stuck inside his gills (or damaged his skin) as he swam through it.

I'll make a point to begin telling people to dissolve the powder first (in a cup or something) before dumping it into their QT.

@melypr1985

Fenzinna · Dec 22, 2016

Yea. No idea. Package clearly state don't dissolve before adding to aquarium. Almost home. I got metro and I'll start food with it and see if they'll eat it. Tomorrow water change.

Fenzinna · Dec 22, 2016

Lost two today. Third seems to be swimming pointing straight down. Another swim bladder issue? What is going on?

Humblefish · Dec 22, 2016

Fenzinna said:
Lost two today. Third seems to be swimming pointing straight down. Another swim bladder issue? What is going on?

Are they still in CP?

Fenzinna · Dec 22, 2016

Yes but a water change was done today at 25% without redosing. Is that what you experienced?

Humblefish · Dec 22, 2016

Fenzinna said:
Yes but a water change was done today at 25% without redosing. Is that what you experienced?

There have been too many anecdotal reports of anthias dying in CP for it to be considered a "safe" medication to use on them. I would do another large WC and run carbon.

I personally have had success using CP with anthias, but I didn't QT enough of them (different species) for it to be definitive.

Fenzinna · Dec 23, 2016

Humblefish said:
There have been too many anecdotal reports of anthias dying in CP for it to be considered a "safe" medication to use on them. I would do another large WC and run carbon.

I personally have had success using CP with anthias, but I didn't QT enough of them (different species) for it to be definitive.

I chose to do a tank transfer for a full reset. Matched SG in a 5gal bucket. Temp felt the same to the touch. Dropped in one pvc elbow, heater, and airstone.

All three went right in without acclimation. Two immediately dove for cover and the third floated at the top for a minute on his side breathing. I'm pretty sure that's the one with the swimming issue. There is no medication in the bucket.

melypr1985 · Dec 23, 2016

Fenzinna said:
I chose to do a tank transfer for a full reset. Matched SG in a 5gal bucket. Temp felt the same to the touch. Dropped in one pvc elbow, heater, and airstone.

All three went right in without acclimation. Two immediately dove for cover and the third floated at the top for a minute on his side breathing. I'm pretty sure that's the one with the swimming issue. There is no medication in the bucket.

How are they doing now?

Fenzinna · Dec 23, 2016

Haven't been home yet. Christmas shopping right now. But the water their in is fresh with no meds.

So my fingers are crossed.

Fenzinna · Dec 23, 2016

melypr1985 said:
How are they doing now?

Ok. So all three are alive but hiding at the bottom of the five gallon bucket. I moved the Elbow in the tank and the third came out. However, the third is definitely swimming erratically.

And actually swam upside down at the water surface for about a minute. He then swam all off the sides of the bucket in an up and down motion. I left the room for awhile and returned and he was once again on the bottom hiding. The room lights had been off all day and I turned on a ceiling light to view them. I added a small amount of mysis which had metroplex mixed with it. I didn't see any attempt at eating.