Automatic, regular, unattended alkalinity monitoring

[hawkinsrgk]

Im really curious to see what Jim has to say now that macna is over. I think he was waiting to see the crowd response to see if it would push him over the edge or not to go full speed with this product.

Yea. Same here. Jim is generally very active here.

 

[JimWelsh]

Yea. Same here. Jim is generally very active here.

I admit that I've been lurking for the last few days. All three days of MACNA were incredibly busy for me, as you might imagine. There were many productive meetings and private demonstrations. There is clearly a LOT of interest in this device. I looked at the page for this chemistry forum on my desktop, and noticed that Randy's top sticky on optimal parameters for a reef tank that is two years old has some 55,000+ views, and in less than a week this topic already has racked up 26,000+ views!

I want to thank everybody for all the support and encouragement, and apologize to those whose questions I have not yet answered. Regarding the future of this product it is still too soon after MACNA to know what that will be, and everybody (including me) needs to be patient. But many things were set in motion at MACNA, and time will tell what will actually come to fruition.

 

[JimWelsh]

I would appreciate very much if you will answer me and make a comment on my question: First, thanks for your work, very interesting and impressive. Now my considerings: KH/Alk is not varying with CO2(aq) thus not varying with Photoperiod (as pH does). The law of the conservation of alkalinity. If you measure pH after a fix titrating amount and indirect calculate that pH to KH(as i suspect you do), you must also know CO2(aq) as you always need both pH and CO2(aq) to correct calculate dKH. The other method is to only measure CO2(aq) after titrate the sample to a pH of 2.3 and measure the difference in CO2(aq) after titration, and that rise in CO2(aq) is with some calculations an exact measure of true HCO3+CO3. In both cases you must at least measure CO2(aq) with infrared sensor. As you demonstrate that you measurement varies with light (=CO2(aq)), i am very curious how you calculate and measure dKH. Of course i understand and respect that you will not tell details, but maybe you can answer in big lines so i/we can evaluate your method.

Kind regards
Jonas Roman

I am not calculating dKH from other parameters.

 

[JimWelsh]

If I send you $500 can I be a beta tester?

Not at this time, but thanks for asking.

 

[hawkinsrgk]

I admit that I've been lurking for the last few days. All three days of MACNA were incredibly busy for me, as you might imagine. There were many productive meetings and private demonstrations. There is clearly a LOT of interest in this device. I looked at the page for this chemistry forum on my desktop, and noticed that Randy's top sticky on optimal parameters for a reef tank that is two years old has some 55,000+ views, and in less than a week this topic already has racked up 26,000+ views!

I want to thank everybody for all the support and encouragement, and apologize to those whose questions I have not yet answered. Regarding the future of this product it is still too soon after MACNA to know what that will be, and everybody (including me) needs to be patient. But many things were set in motion at MACNA, and time will tell what will actually come to fruition.

After your controller was such a big hit we understand that you may have been boat shopping while in San Diego

 

[JimWelsh]

And it doses solution too. What does it dose? Thanks for your work on this. Pretty awesome !!

This does not dose anything. It analyses at the programmed interval, and reports the results to the screen and also to your controller (if you have one) via the BNC connector. What you do with the data is up to you.

 

[puffy127]

If you ran it every 10 minutes (or whatever the most frequent interval is) how much reagent would you go through? i.e. How often would you need to replace the reagent?

 

[JimWelsh]

Cool idea, very innovative.

If I'm reading this right, your system is basically an automated reagent based alkalinity test? If that's the case, I imagine you would need to periodically refill the reagent container and periodically empty some kind of "old test" reservoir? If so, have you provided some way to adjust the test frequency (i.e. someone with a newer tank could test more frequently while someone with a more stable tank less frequently)? What sort of maintenance would the system require (periodic sensor cleaning and the like)?

No doubt a cool idea... just from a consumer standpoint I personally look at how many points of failure a product may have, safety and redundancy if it is critical to life support, and the kind of maintenance that is needed to keep it operating. And if it is something that needs consumables, like reagent, then what is the annual cost to operate it?

You are very perceptive and prescient. The answer to all the "yes/no" questions is "yes". The answer to the other one is that it is too early to be able to quantify all that yet, but early indications are that maintenance demands should be minimal, and performed on the order of every several months or perhaps even annually.

 

[JimWelsh]

That being said, how do you know this device is accurate? How would you know if the calibration fluid is accurate? Lol just something to think about.

The device will be tested against Dickson CRM soon. I'll get back to you with those results when they are available. Is that sufficient to address your concerns?

 

[JimWelsh]

If this isn't an elaborate hoax, then sign me up!

Time is money. Test kits are money. Losing corals due to alkalinity anomalies is money.

If there is one thing I dislike, it is to see people killing fish or corals due to silly errors or completely preventable water chemistry blunders (even moreso when I do it!). If this is real and pans out, it could make keeping our creatures alive and thriving more attainable for thousands. That is priceless.

Anyhow, this seems like a cool idea. I can't wait to hear more.

I realize I am making extraordinary claims, and that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The best I could do to produce extraordinary evidence in the short time I had before MACNA was to get one in Richard Ross' hands for a while before MACNA. I direct questions about whether this is a hoax or not to Rich.

 

[locito277]

I realize I am making extraordinary claims, and that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The best I could do to produce extraordinary evidence in the short time I had before MACNA was to get one in Richard Ross' hands for a while before MACNA. I direct questions about whether this is a hoax or not to Rich.

Great job Jim!

 

[JimWelsh]

Is the reagent used fully safe for corals and fish? Would water changes be required to keep it from accumulating in ones tank? What happens with those tanks that do no water changes?

The reagent goes to a drain or waste container, and does not get returned to the tank.

 

[JimWelsh]

I'm in....can run the waste line to your skimmate container (if you have one), and pull RO from the top off container.

Here's also to hoping that you tackle continous Calc monitoring as well.

Yes, you can treat waste and rinse lines as you suggest. I've dabbled with doing a similar Ca monitor, but put that idea on the "back burner" so that I could just focus on getting the Alkalinity prototype as ready as possible for MACNA in the short time I had.

 

[Fishinwall]

I'd love to be your "average joe" beta tester. If I can use it, anyone can! [emoji5]
Very excited about this. Nice job.

 

[deaclauderdale]

Yes, you can treat waste and rinse lines as you suggest. I've dabbled with doing a similar Ca monitor, but put that idea on the "back burner" so that I could just focus on getting the Alkalinity prototype as ready as possible for MACNA in the short time I had.

I like others have mentioned would be willing to beta test as well, and once you do Calc again (I hope you do Calc again) count me in for that as well.

 

[JimWelsh]

If you ran it every 10 minutes (or whatever the most frequent interval is) how much reagent would you go through? i.e. How often would you need to replace the reagent?

Approximately 250-300 mL per day when testing every 10 minutes, depending upon the dKH level of the tank.

I realize that most people probably would tend to run it much less frequently, but I will say that when you can see the alkalinity level with a precision of +/- 0.05 dKH every 10 minutes, some really interesting things become visible that were never possible before, such as those anecdotes I mentioned on the video linked earlier in this thread.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

A very successful demo today!

Here's a video:

Afterwards Reefbuilders and Reefs.com and various media sources all wanted to interview and talk to Mr. Welsh on camera. There's a lot of excitement about this awesome product.

This is genius, basically this is like a hanna checker on a perilastic pump with solenoids that connects to an apex. I feel like i must have it now!!! waiting on the release...

NOWWW.... When is the phosphate checker coming out ? I wonder if there is a liquid reagent for that

 

[revhtree]

A very successful demo today!

Here's a video:

Afterwards Reefbuilders and Reefs.com and various media sources all wanted to interview and talk to Mr. Welsh on camera. There's a lot of excitement about this awesome product.

Awesome video and we had him first! R2R that is...

 

[NeverlosT]

This is genius, basically this is like a hanna checker on a perilastic pump with solenoids that connects to an apex. I feel like i must have it now!!! waiting on the release...

NOWWW.... When is the phosphate checker coming out ? I wonder if there is a liquid reagent for that

Yup that looks like exactly it. Would be useful and fun to have! May have to buy the reagent by the gallon, but what a great resource.

 

[dragonfish]

wow following