Automatic Water changes. It doesnt get any better then this.

[ThePriceSeliger]

My dual pumps aren't perfect in their calibration, but it is something that I can live with, however I put a john guest valve and I must have increased the pressure on the pump tube and it wore a vertical groove into it. The pump came with replacements, but fair warning. The other is holding up fine with the same amount of wear.

A valve of any sort on a peristaltic pump won't be efficient, especially on a dual headed pump such as the Stenner. Since it's driven by one motor, the valve will essentially transfer that resistance to the motor, thus slowing the flow on both lines. Also, if you put the valve on the suction side, it'll cause damage to the lines of the pump. One way of fixing your calibration could be to decrease the hose size on the lower pumping head. Never tried it and would be a small investment to figure it out.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

Yep going with the original plan of dosing pumps. 290$ for a pump. Ouch. I can achieve the same using a dosing pump with my reefkeeper

This is, IMO, the wrong thought process. Say you purchased two identical peristaltic dosing pumps, these dosing pumps have to be calibrated perfectly for the system to be efficient in the long term. The reason for the Stenner is the dual head driven by one motor meaning, in theory, it's always the same amount going in and out. Without this calibration, you'll subject your tank to frequent salinity swings. You could possibly make the system work well enough, but that's hardly what I'm trying to achieve.

 

[snowbomb101]

I don't see anyone talking about using the Apex DOS system to do water changes. I am staring a 125G build from scratch and am going to use a DOS for automatic water changes. I too am concerned about different distances from my waste location and my new salt water. I think the DOS system has a calibration function. I will update the thread with how it goes. I would love to hear about anyone else using the DOS system to do water changes.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

I don't see anyone talking about using the Apex DOS system to do water changes. I am staring a 125G build from scratch and am going to use a DOS for automatic water changes. I too am concerned about different distances from my waste location and my new salt water. I think the DOS system has a calibration function. I will update the thread with how it goes. I would love to hear about anyone else using the DOS system to do water changes.

I'm currently using the DOS, and have been for about 8 months. I have about 10 feet of head pressure and about a 40 foot horizontal run. I have zero calibration issues, and it stays calibrated for a pretty reasonable amount of time. Nothing else to really say about it, it works as it should.

 

[Black Pearl]

I have the Stenner setup, pump plugged into my apex, ran a long cord from the garage where the Stenner is located. Love this setup, 2 gal per day, exchanges 4 times in 24 hours on 350 total volume system, salinity rock steady

 

[kattz]

Guys, I did this for my wife who has MS and has to take care of the 500g tank and system while I'm gone.

Uses:

• 2 Mag 7 pumps - one is for mixing salt water anyway, and one in the sump to pump out
  
• four food grade (stainless and polyethylene) Asco valves - one NO and three NC, 3/4" 120V
• nine float switches - two in the bottom of the sump at a preset level, two at the top preset level in the sump, one higher as a safety that is in use at all times, and two in the bottom of the salt water tank as well as two at the top
  
• internal alarm buzzer in apex in use

1. When FEED D is on (buzzer starts when FEED D selected) longer than 30 secs (protects from dumb thumbing the Apex control head keys),
2. AND the temperature of the fresh salt water batch is within 3° +/- of the Apex kills the skimmer and return pumps, and the in-sump heaters. Also the feed pump for ATO, CA reactor, etc are turned off.
3. Wait 20 secs for drain down of approx 60 gals of water from the DT and skimmer
   
4. After drain down, condition is that ONE switch is ON and ONE switch is OFF at the high level of the tank - not the "normal running water level, that's two more switches), the "out of water" contacts of the switches are reverse of this, as are ALL of the switches in the system. Control reliability without a safety relay!
5. If all conditions are true, the Mag 7 in the sump is started and one NC valve fed by the in-sump Mag 7 is opened.
6. If no change in the water level in the sump in 30 seconds, the valve and pump is stopped and the tank systems are returned to normal running condition. Assumption is that the outlet valve or pump has failed.
7. If water level drops, process continues until the two bottom float switches in the tank are triggered.
8. In sump pump and outlet valve power is terminated.
9. NO "stir" valve at saltwater tank is energized to close and the in-storage tank heater is turned off.
10. The NC valve feeding the sump is opened and fresh saltwater flows out of the storage tank into the sump under the pressure of the mixing Mag 7 until either the upper in-sump switches come on or the tank runs out. It is set up so that the tank still has a little reserve and the sump hi level switches should shut off the feed pump first.
11. Once the switches in the storage tank comes on before the in-sump switches, or hi level emergency switch in the sump comes on, or water doesn't make it to the in-sump hi level switches within 5 minutes, CHECK WATER CHANGE is emailed to everyone on the system.
12. Once the in-sump switches come on, the NC valve is closed and the NC valve from the RO water reservoir is opened and water flows from that tank under gravity until the upper level switches in the saltwater mixing tank change state.
13. If time preset passes and the mixing tank hi level switches do not turn on, an alarm is set, the valve power and mixing Mag 7 power is terminated, a and the heater remains off. Otherwise, the mixing tank is filled automatically and shut off at the correct level.
14. Two Nest cameras monitor this process so I can see it from anywhere in the world. My wife doesn't even have to get out of her chair to watch.
15. She will add a prefilled container of salt to the mixing tank when convenient.

All valves have manual bypasses in case of electric valve failure or Apex failure.

Changes 15% of total volume and can be done as fast as it takes to heat up the salt water in the mixing tank and refill the 60G used in the process - about 8 hours. - I have a program ready to go that will change the total system water volume in 48 hours.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sounds like a lot, but it was pure enjoyment to think it up, build it, program it, and watch it work.

Kev

 

[snowbomb101]

I'm currently using the DOS, and have been for about 8 months. I have about 10 feet of head pressure and about a 40 foot horizontal run. I have zero calibration issues, and it stays calibrated for a pretty reasonable amount of time. Nothing else to really say about it, it works as it should.

I am glad to hear that it is working for you. I have a similar setup. How often are you calibrating? Why do you have to do it often? Wear on the tubing at the pump?

 

[gettaReef]

Guys, I did this for my wife who has MS and has to take care of the 500g tank and system while I'm gone.

Uses:

• 2 Mag 7 pumps - one is for mixing salt water anyway, and one in the sump to pump out
  
• four food grade (stainless and polyethylene) Asco valves - one NO and three NC, 3/4" 120V
• nine float switches - two in the bottom of the sump at a preset level, two at the top preset level in the sump, one higher as a safety that is in use at all times, and two in the bottom of the salt water tank as well as two at the top
  
• internal alarm buzzer in apex in use

1. When FEED D is on (buzzer starts when FEED D selected) longer than 30 secs (protects from dumb thumbing the Apex control head keys),
2. AND the temperature of the fresh salt water batch is within 3° +/- of the Apex kills the skimmer and return pumps, and the in-sump heaters. Also the feed pump for ATO, CA reactor, etc are turned off.
3. Wait 20 secs for drain down of approx 60 gals of water from the DT and skimmer
   
4. After drain down, condition is that ONE switch is ON and ONE switch is OFF at the high level of the tank - not the "normal running water level, that's two more switches), the "out of water" contacts of the switches are reverse of this, as are ALL of the switches in the system. Control reliability without a safety relay!
5. If all conditions are true, the Mag 7 in the sump is started and one NC valve fed by the in-sump Mag 7 is opened.
6. If no change in the water level in the sump in 30 seconds, the valve and pump is stopped and the tank systems are returned to normal running condition. Assumption is that the outlet valve or pump has failed.
7. If water level drops, process continues until the two bottom float switches in the tank are triggered.
8. In sump pump and outlet valve power is terminated.
9. NO "stir" valve at saltwater tank is energized to close and the in-storage tank heater is turned off.
10. The NC valve feeding the sump is opened and fresh saltwater flows out of the storage tank into the sump under the pressure of the mixing Mag 7 until either the upper in-sump switches come on or the tank runs out. It is set up so that the tank still has a little reserve and the sump hi level switches should shut off the feed pump first.
11. Once the switches in the storage tank comes on before the in-sump switches, or hi level emergency switch in the sump comes on, or water doesn't make it to the in-sump hi level switches within 5 minutes, CHECK WATER CHANGE is emailed to everyone on the system.
12. Once the in-sump switches come on, the NC valve is closed and the NC valve from the RO water reservoir is opened and water flows from that tank under gravity until the upper level switches in the saltwater mixing tank change state.
13. If time preset passes and the mixing tank hi level switches do not turn on, an alarm is set, the valve power and mixing Mag 7 power is terminated, a and the heater remains off. Otherwise, the mixing tank is filled automatically and shut off at the correct level.
14. Two Nest cameras monitor this process so I can see it from anywhere in the world. My wife doesn't even have to get out of her chair to watch.
15. She will add a prefilled container of salt to the mixing tank when convenient.

All valves have manual bypasses in case of electric valve failure or Apex failure.

Changes 15% of total volume and can be done as fast as it takes to heat up the salt water in the mixing tank and refill the 60G used in the process - about 8 hours. - I have a program ready to go that will change the total system water volume in 48 hours.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sounds like a lot, but it was pure enjoyment to think it up, build it, program it, and watch it work.

Kev

Would you mind sharing a link to the electronic valves you used? Well done!

 

[kattz]

Sure. Look here. Normally closed valve. Here is the normally open valve.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

I am glad to hear that it is working for you. I have a similar setup. How often are you calibrating? Why do you have to do it often? Wear on the tubing at the pump?

I believe Neptune recommends calibrating every 50 hours of operation. I'm not sure how long that is in actual usage, so I ballpark it. Once every month or two I'll quickly calibrate each line twice, just to verify. Takes about 5 minutes, and sometimes an extra set of hands is nice. I have not checked the tubes inside the DOS, but calibration isn't an issue, and until it is I won't change the tubes.

 

[DBR_Reef]

There are cheaper, easier ways of doing automatic water changes- A float switch, timer, and 2 pumps will do the job
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dbrs-120g-mixed-reef-automation-heavy.251782/#post-2979680

 

[dragonfish]

http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_6_30_33

i got 200 gallon whats the best onr for me ?

 

[AquamanE]

http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_6_30_33

i got 200 gallon whats the best onr for me ?

Up to you. How much to you want to change per day?. How long do you want pump to run?.

I also have a 200G. I change 1.25G at 6am, and 1.25 g at 6pm (total of 2.5 gallons/day). I cant remember which one i have but its listed at the beginning of this thread.

 

[DBR_Reef]

http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_6_30_33

i got 200 gallon whats the best onr for me ?

I don't own one, so I don't know, but it seems to me the faster the better- its going to be on a timer anyway

 

[Girish23]

just use floating water level sensor with relay and one normal power head it working awasom i using that see diy ato video on you tube it is very cheap to do and easy

 

[FLSharkvictim]

LITERMETER III REVIEW BY EDDIE SOLER (AquamanE)

As many of you know this thread has proven many ways to make reefing easier for many. At the time of this response this thread has over >25,000 views. Dr. David Thompson started this when he choose to research different ways to perform Automatic water Changes (AWC).

As the thread progressed many had their own ideas with eBay pumps, medical grade pumps, and others very capable of performing the task. Dr. Thompson bought and currently uses a Stenner 100DM4 pump, and so do I. Mid-way through I was approached by Spectrapure to give the LM3 a try and post a “review”. So here it is.

I will use Dr. Thompson’s research on the Liter Meter 3 (LM3) as this will make it easier to review those important topics on the pump. My responses will be in a different color for easier reading.

He checked out the liter meter, masterflex pumps and Stenner pumps for this project. I can’t comment on any other pump since I have only used the Stenner and the LM3. Below where his thoughts on the LM3 after his exhaustive search, and my response.

LiterMeter PRO's:

Easiest to setup- No doubt easy to set up. Trying to be careful though I reached out to Customer Service at Spectrapure and they guided me through the whole process in 10 minutes.

Designed for auto water changes- The LM3 can be used for more than just AWC’s, it can be used for other precise dosing such as 2 part, trace elements, etc.. It also has a very nice module for feeding Kalkwasser.

Best peristaltic pump in the industry (aquarium)- I don’t know if it’s the “best” peristaltic pump, not being an engineer, but it is definitely an “aquarium” pump. Many of the others mentioned are industrial chemical pumps (Stenner), ink press pumps (eBay), medical grade pumps (Masterflex). So this is definitely a pump geared toward aquarium use.
Excellent customer service - read comments, blogs, recommendations from friends, Reef Central forum messages- Dr. Thompson used the mentioned process’s for this comment. I experienced it first-hand. My multiple calls to Spectrapure where always answered immediately and by knowledgeable folks in the CS department.

Quietest of the 3 choices- Again can’t opine on anything other than the LM3 vs. Stenner. Some on here have called the Stenner a “jet engine”. I wouldn’t call it that loud but it is DEFINITELY loud. The LM3 is VERY quiet. The fact that my AWC pump sits in a closet, I can hear the Stenner (although acceptable to me), the LM3 I would not know it was working if I didn’t sit there in front of it and listen, or check the fresh SW bin to make sure it was being emptied every day.

LiterMeter Cons:

-more expensive new, though readily avail used at lower prices- Spectrapure has recently drop their price of the LM3. For how long? don’t know.

-Not apex compatible- This is a matter of semantics. While you control the amount changed by the Stenner with a Controller by letting it know how many minutes to stay on, you don’t need to do this with the LM3. You program how many liters (gals) you want to change per day and the LM3 does it. It calculates its own rates and divides that by 150 and does it all day long FOR you. Some may consider this a CON since you have no control over this, but if all you want is x # of gallons changes per day, it happens. Regarding safety features, all we do with a Stenner is program the controller to shut off if the fresh SW bin is empty, or the sump is getting overfilled. It’s just an ON/OFF feature in controllers. Why can’t that be done with the LM3 with the same float switches used for any other pump. Ex. If fresh SW bin empty “plug#5”=off. No different.

-Require periodic calibration for accuracy- I found this to actually be a PRO. The LM3 requires a calibration so that it can take into account line lengths, head pressure etc. to determine whether one pump needs to be faster or slower than the other to deliver the same volume. It then adjusts its flow rate and time to deliver both sides equally. You can’t do that with the Stenner, it’s a fixed rate by both heads equally, regardless of line pressure, length or head. CS at Spectrapure tells me you only need to do if you change lines, tubing on pump, or maybe once a year. It took me 10 minutes.

-Not designed for continuous use- Don’t know that I agree with this either. The LM3 divides your requests by 150 and performs this all day 150 times. I ran it for 1.5 months with Zero issues.

CONCLUSION: The LM3 is a great pump. For the purposes of AWC I don’t see many drawbacks other than (now) just a slight increase in price, and the fact that you are stuck with 150x per day whether you want that or not. But again, is this really a draw back? I will warn though that although this pump is capable of many other things including precision dosing and ATO capabilities, if you are using for AWC that is all you can do with it. In the future you decide to stop AWC, then you continue to have a multifaceted pump, unlike the Stenner. All you can do with it is AWC. All this being said the LM3 is backed up by a 5 year warranty, much more than the others. Couple that with excellent customer service, you have a winner. I recommend it as an excellent choice for AWC pump. Try getting that and/or technical service from an industrial chemical pump company about your aquarium needs, or an eBay guy that pulled it off a printing press with ink.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@AquamanE - GREAT WRITE UP MATE on the Spectrapure (LM3)! Since I already have a TUNZE 3155 ATO system, I think i MIGHT go with the Stenner instead especially since I already have the Eshoops IV Master and Salve doser for Alk, Cal and Mag..
I own a 120 Mixed Reef system with two 25 gallon Ace Moto Containers for my saltwater mixing station that sits in my garage about 25 ft from the main display. I just need to add an Apex EB8 and a few more float switches with the Stenner pump and then I will need to the buy an Aquabus 30'extension Cable so it will connect to my Apex control panel and run it through my wall.. Above my mixing station, i have a 6 stage BRS RODI system with an Aquatec Booster Pump, PinPoint Salinity Monitor and an Inkbird Temp Controller. Care to share a few pictures of your set up?

Tank Info: 120 Mixed Reef
Apex Classic
Apex ALD Module w/ 2 Leak Detector probes
Apex PM2 Module w/ Salinity Probe
BreakOut box. I use 1 float switch for my skimmer so it Does not overflow and two for my Avast Kalk reactor.

 

[FLSharkvictim]

I think I am going to go with the LiterMeter3 for my saltwater mixing station and 1 Basic LiterMeter dosing pump. I would you like to be able to use my Apex to control if it's possible.
What would I all need besides the LiterMeter3 & 1 Basic LiterMeter dosing pump to take out the old saltwater out of my sump and add new saltwater to my sump.
As far as my ATO, i already have a TUNZE 3155, SO THEY only thing, I want the Liter meter to do is take out saltwater out of my sump and replace new saltwater from my Mixing station.

 

[AquamanE]

Bump

 

[awais98]

I use a single Masterflex peristaltic pump with 3 heads to do slow continuous water change
5 ml/ min/ 24x7!
Head 1: brings new salt water into the main sump
Head 2: takes old sump water into a frag tank
Head 3: takes old frag tank water into the house drain.
All equal 5ml /min 24x7

 

[Sacohen]

I still haven’t set mine up.
I’ve had major set backs and had to take my tank down for a while.