Can't seem to keep nitrates down

[drawman]

Lif bio fill is out? Where can I get it?

It's an aquaforest product bulk reef supply sells it

 

[scoopsthedog]

LOL, I like your answer, and that what makes this a great hobby.

Thanks. I have a diverse enough set of LPS, Zoas and Softies I believe with testing and feeding I can manage growth, color and low Pho / NO3.

 

[jsker]

Lif bio fill is out? Where can I get it?

BRS link there you go

 

[tjnorthdakota]

I would test your ro water for nitrates and see if its contributing, most water systems use chloramines which is the addition of ammonium nitrate into the water, rodi can struggle to remove nitrates sometimes 20% or more make it through.

 

[drawman]

I would test your ro water for nitrates and see if its contributing, most water systems use chloramines which is the addition of ammonium nitrate into the water, rodi can struggle to remove nitrates sometimes 20% or more make it through.

It's funny that you say this because last weekend I did test my NSW (Aquaforest reef salt, not probiotic) and I was getting about 5ppm. I have another Salifert kit at a different location so I will probably test with that to confirm this coming weekend.

I have a monster sized chloramine carbon block (big blue canister) to battle the chloramines in my water supply. I was under the impression that this would break the chloramine bond and resulting ammonia would be removed with adequate DI filtration. If my test kit is accurate then I'm getting some Nitrate through somehow. Now even if it is that high I can't see that being the main culprit of 50ppm even with NO3 of 5ppm in the topoff water.

 

[drawman]

Tested phosphate today as it has been some time.

Most recent tests:
PO4: .049ppm from Hanna ULR
NO3: 50ppm from Salifert

I had backed off of my carbon dosing several months ago after I had ran out of my -NP Pro and lapsed on dosing for about a week. Since then I've been at roughly 7.5mL/day for this tank. My goal will be to raise it to at least 11mL but I may overshoot to see if I can get things to come down. I have to assume I am carbon limited in this situation at that level of PO4. I currently have 2 liters of Siporax and 2/3 gallon of Matrix. I have toyed with the idea of adding another 4 liters of Siporax and maybe eventually phasing out the matrix. Thoughts are welcome!

 

[2una]

I've had this exact battle before (bottles & bottles of Np Pro/ProbioS)
My opinion is something like No3/100 = where your Po4 needs to be at for bact to work properly.
So for you that's 0.50 Po4 & you at 0.049.
Water changes.....np pro/siporax/matrix/bio life fil ain't going to do it till the levels are more aligned.
my opinion anyway

 

[drawman]

I've had this exact battle before (bottles & bottles of Np Pro/ProbioS)
My opinion is something like No3/100 = where your Po4 needs to be at for bact to work properly.
So for you that's 0.50 Po4 & you at 0.049.
Water changes.....np pro/siporax/matrix/bio life fil ain't going to do it till the levels are more aligned.
my opinion anyway

Yeah at this point I almost feel like I will try anything. Going up that high in PO4 would make me very nervous but bumping it up a little to see if I get a drop in NO3 is fine and I have contemplated it some.

So out of curiosity what were your NO3 and PO4 initially and what did you raise your PO4 to to get results? Did you use a product like Brightwell NeoPhos?

At the very least I want to slowly raise my dose of -NP Pro. If I don't get any change in NO3 then I could attempt to dose PO4. If that doesn't appear to get consumed and I don't get a change in NO3 then my head may explode

 

[2una]

I was also close to 50 No3 but i was still running GFO also thinking there was enough po4.
I turned the GFO off & forced myself to let Po4 rise,did some water changes to get the No3 more down toward 25/50 on the salifert kit. Once po4 got up to north of 0.2 i got some awakening on the nitrates coming down.
It just rose with feedings i never added a supp to raise it.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

Vinegar did it for me, but I was dosing around 20 ml into a 55 gallon tank with a lot of rock, it wouldn't move until I reached that point, and all of a sudden No3 dropped like a rock 40-0 . Haven't read the thread fully, but have you tried increasing the light intensity on your refugium, if you have one?!

 

[drawman]

Vinegar did it for me, but I was dosing around 20 ml into a 55 gallon tank with a lot of rock, it wouldn't move until I reached that point, and all of a sudden No3 dropped like a rock 40-0 . Haven't read the thread fully, but have you tried increasing the light intensity on your refugium, if you have one?!

No refugium at the moment. Hopefully ramping up my carbon will have the same effect!

 

[Bayinaung]

Tested phosphate today as it has been some time.

Most recent tests:
PO4: .049ppm from Hanna ULR
NO3: 50ppm from Salifert

I had backed off of my carbon dosing several months ago after I had ran out of my -NP Pro and lapsed on dosing for about a week. Since then I've been at roughly 7.5mL/day for this tank. My goal will be to raise it to at least 11mL but I may overshoot to see if I can get things to come down. I have to assume I am carbon limited in this situation at that level of PO4. I currently have 2 liters of Siporax and 2/3 gallon of Matrix. I have toyed with the idea of adding another 4 liters of Siporax and maybe eventually phasing out the matrix. Thoughts are welcome!

It is puzzling as you are using denitrifying bacteria so the problem may be that your tank is deficient in carbon, and possibly phosphates.

I have had the opposite problem - I have a smallish fragtank 45G total water volume where I used 11 liters of Matrix (3 gallons?), approx. 30-40lbs of live rock. I was dosing about 10-20ml of vinegar daily since the cycling began (w live rock only) and had 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates, corals were healthy but ghostly pale. Currently remedying it by reducing matrix, increased feeding and dosing N and P. So you may want to up biological media and use more carbon - vinegar is a cheap source and it may not take much. the amount I was using didn't impact ph in my tank.

By the way did you see this thread and video from BRS as it explains the C N P relationship better than any thread can:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/why-do-i-have-high-nitrates-but-low-phosphates.295414/

 

[drawman]

It is puzzling as you are using denitrifying bacteria so the problem may be that your tank is deficient in carbon, and possibly phosphates.

I have had the opposite problem - I have a smallish fragtank 45G total water volume where I used 11 liters of Matrix (3 gallons?), approx. 30-40lbs of live rock. I was dosing about 10-20ml of vinegar daily since the cycling began (w live rock only) and had 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates, corals were healthy but ghostly pale. Currently remedying it by reducing matrix, increased feeding and dosing N and P. So you may want to up biological media and use more carbon - vinegar is a cheap source and it may not take much. the amount I was using didn't impact ph in my tank.

By the way did you see this thread and video from BRS as it explains the C N P relationship better than any thread can:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/why-do-i-have-high-nitrates-but-low-phosphates.295414/

Yeah I tend to agree. You have a ton of Matrix for that size tank I like it. In your case I would ask why are you carbon dosing (if you still are)?

I will likely increase the amount of Siporax along with -NP Pro

 

[drawman]

Just to keep this thread updated I have switched from -NP Pro over to vinegar/vodka dosing 2x daily staring on 3/29/17. Results are looking good so far .

Just tested nitrates today and I'm still at 50ppm but it is early so I don't expect a drop yet. It may not have been quite as dark on my Salifert test so I will be monitoring closely for any drop so I can adjust dosing accordingly.

Anecdotally, the amount of film algae present on the glass is A LOT less. I would get a pretty solid greenish/brown matt over about a week and the amount that has grown over the last week is minimal if any. I'm going to give it a good clean today and I will see what grows over the next week. Skimmer production has also seemed to increase but it is relatively wet (while still being a good dark brown).

 

[Myka]

Just to keep this thread updated I have switched from -NP Pro over to vinegar/vodka dosing 2x daily staring on 3/29/17. Results are looking good so far .

Just tested nitrates today and I'm still at 50ppm but it is early so I don't expect a drop yet.

So really there are no results yet because it's too early? hehehe

I just caught up in your thread, and find you haven't made any progress in 6 months. IME, -NP Pro is too "gentle" of a product to use to decrease NO3 as high as 50 ppm. -NP Pro is a better product for tanks that just need a touch of help. I've done vinegar dosing before with good results starting in the 40-50 ppm range. Fwiw, I much prefer biopellets to vinegar or vodka dosing since I've found the latter to be more prone to causing bacteria bloom. I do like to use vinegar on tanks that don't use dosers because you can just add it to the auto top off water.

 

[drawman]

So really there are no results yet because it's too early? hehehe

I just caught up in your thread, and find you haven't made any progress in 6 months. IME, -NP Pro is too "gentle" of a product to use to decrease NO3 as high as 50 ppm. -NP Pro is a better product for tanks that just need a touch of help. I've done vinegar dosing before with good results starting in the 40-50 ppm range. Fwiw, I much prefer biopellets to vinegar or vodka dosing since I've found the latter to be more prone to causing bacteria bloom. I do like to use vinegar on tanks that don't use dosers because you can just add it to the auto top off water.

Yeah I couldn't agree more. I'm a little stubborn so it took me a while to realize the -NP Pro was too mild for what my tanks needs. Even though the numbers aren't there yet I will expect different results . I guess I was hoping that the Siporax, Matrix, and -NP Pro would bring things together but I was clearly beating my head against the wall.

I almost moved forward with biopellets but I couldn't find a recirculating (or standard) reactor that I liked. A lot of the ones I looked at had some very mixed reviews. It seemed like reef dynamics made a very good product so it's a shame they're no longer around.

 

[domination2580]

Yeah I couldn't agree more. I'm a little stubborn so it took me a while to realize the -NP Pro was too mild for what my tanks needs. Even though the numbers aren't there yet I will expect different results . I guess I was hoping that the Siporax, Matrix, and -NP Pro would bring things together but I was clearly beating my head against the wall.

I almost moved forward with biopellets but I couldn't find a recirculating (or standard) reactor that I liked. A lot of the ones I looked at had some very mixed reviews. It seemed like reef dynamics made a very good product so it's a shame they're no longer around.

Np pro and pro bio s are recommended to be used in conjunction with each other...

 

[71xlch]

Dosing bacteria will greatly enhance your carbon dosing experience.

 

[drawman]

Np pro and pro bio s are recommended to be used in conjunction with each other...

Dosing bacteria will greatly enhance your carbon dosing experience.

Yes. Throughout my use of -NP Pro I dosed Pro Bio S regularly thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dosing bacteria will greatly enhance your carbon dosing experience.

In what way?

I can see if you have a cyanobacteria problem it could help. If you don't have cyanobacteria in problematic amounts, I'm not sure what benefit there would be over the bacteria species natural arising in the tank.