Did a bad thing. Please QT your fish. Med help

[Michael43]

so I literally just finished my fish collection in my what was soon to be sps reef. If I told you guys the stocklist and my circumstance you'd be sick. I am beyond sick. So I added 3 fish last wed and Friday. Didn't QT... come home Saturday to about half of my fish with ich and/or velvet. It's like 40 fish. I couldn't pull and QT just too many. I dosed the whole tank with ich-x Saturday night. Water change of about 15% another dose Sunday and then same thing Monday. I will say a lot of the fish look signicantly better on their skin at least. A few still not good and just both my tinkers butterflies got worse. I'm ready to pull the fish and QT since it's less and want to treat for velvet. What would you guys use? Cupramine(copper)? Chloroquine phos? ?? I'm at a loss and need to try and save these guys. Who knows if the tank will ever be ok now to add corals...

 

[Diesel]

Well what can I say............. IMO you rushed all though you knew you should have quarantined you fish.
If you jumped the gun on Saturday and posted this in the fish decease section you probably wouldn't wasted your money on the Kick-ick and were in a better condition as you are now.
Hopping that @melypr1985 and @Humblefish can get you back on track.

 

[Michael43]

Yeah I panicked and had ichx on hand. Didn't know what to do. If a moderator wants to move this to fish disease maybe that would be better.

 

[Humblefish]

Ich-X contains formaldehyde, so it would make sense for you to see some temporary relief from velvet. However, formaldehyde doesn't remain stable in water for long so as more dinospores get released from their tomonts your fish will just keep getting reinfected.

Please read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

And especially this part: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

 

[nervousmonkey]

wow, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Same thing happened to me and @Humblefish helped me save the fish I could. Follow his advice at all costs...

 

[melypr1985]

Definitely follow what's in those links for treatment. If you can't get CP and fast, then go with copper as it's readily available. You'll want to get the fish into QT as quickly as you can without rushing. Move with purpose and not panic.

 

[Triggreef]

If its velvet you need to pull them all and act fast, which it very well could be. Or worse it could be and most likely is both. If you read Humble's links above then you know your options. Pull them all, find a way to quarantine them, or lose them all is the most likely scenario. If its ich, you can try going through the ich management threads and trying all that non sense but they will slowly die off anyway at a much faster rate than if they are properly quarantined. The lives of most of the fish we keep should be measured in decades not years. So keep that in mind when you read about "ich management" when you see someone mention successful fish keeping of tangs for 5 plus years, thats not success its failure, as they should live 20+ years easily.

The only negative I can say about quarantining honestly is that I no longer get to shop for fish, because they don't die so I don't get to replace them. I can never buy new fish now unless I set up a new tank which is not happening. But enough side track, my only suggestion for you is to start skimming your local craigslist for a viable option to hold so many fish. And stock up on salt.

 

[Michael43]

Thank you humblefish. I will do a fw dip to especially the extremely infected fish tomorrow, the chemical bath, and then chloroquine phos if I can find it locally if not using cupramine. It sounds like my fish that look better, it may be only temporary. Is there something I can safely add to the tank now knowing it may have traces of the ich x to kill free floating pieces or parasites still there. For the bath I obviously have ich x. Would that be better than acriflavine?

 

[Michael43]

So should I pull even fish that aren't showing signs of infection? If one has it they all have it kind of thing? It's been nearly 4 days and all fish are still eating and such but need to do what's right. I honestly think it was only ich until I saw the tinkers yesterday. But they are the only ones that seem to me to have it. If I sound ignorant I apologize

 

[melypr1985]

Would that be better than acriflavine?

We like acriflavin because of the antiseptic properties. It helps keep infections from setting in while the copper or cp has time to do it's job. If you can find Ruby Reef Rally, it has acriflavin in it.

 

[Kershaw]

I would go buy one of those large water bins you see at Lfs with live rock in it. Transfer your entire tank, rock and fish to it. It will make it easier to catch all your fish. Then move the rock back to the display and treat all the fish in large water bin. Of course using humblefishes meathod. You will just stress the fish more trying to catch them with the rock in the tank.

 

[melypr1985]

So should I pull even fish that aren't showing signs of infection? If one has it they all have it kind of thing? It's been nearly 4 days and all fish are still eating and such but need to do what's right. I honestly think it was only ich until I saw the tinkers yesterday. But they are the only ones that seem to me to have it. If I sound ignorant I apologize

Definitely pull all the fish and let the display run fallow (fishless) for 76 days. Otherwise, the parasite will still be in the display and just reinfect the fish when they go back in.

 

[Humblefish]

The only negative I can say about quarantining honestly is that I no longer get to shop for fish, because they don't die so I don't get to replace them.

Ironically, a LFS I advise has a similar problem. He now properly QTs all incoming fish, but his loyal customers can't buy many because their "old fish" stopped dying. Not good for business, but it gives me hope that this problem eventually can be solved.

 

[Michael43]

Geez this is bad. I knew some work was going to be involved but not this crazy. There's nothing I obviously can do to just treat the infected fish and leave ones showing no symptoms of anything?

 

[melypr1985]

Geez this is bad. I knew some work was going to be involved but not this crazy. There's nothing I obviously can do to just treat the infected fish and leave ones showing no symptoms of anything?

No. I'm sorry, but they all have it. Even if they are not showing symptoms, they are still carriers and will allow for the parasite to continue it's life cycle. Removing all the fish, stops the life cycle.

 

[Bdog4u2]

Hopefully one day all the fish we love will be bred in captivity and we can end some of these parasites .

 

[Humblefish]

No. I'm sorry, but they all have it. Even if they are not showing symptoms, they are still carriers and will allow for the parasite to continue it's life cycle. Removing all the fish, stops the life cycle.

+1 No easy way out. Especially if this is Velvet.

 

[Triggreef]

Unfortunately not, the easiest way is to start QT from the beginning.

But with 40 fish your most likely talking about thousands.

If thinking about treating display, with no inverts... Maybe CP but I'm not experienced with it. Humble may know more about how it would effect the liverock, sandbed, etc. and the possibility of ever having inverts in the tank again afterwards... But I don't think that has really been explored much.

 

[Triggreef]

+1 No easy way out. Especially if this is Velvet.

Any thought on my above post? If he is truly invert free?

 

[Humblefish]

CP is not a viable option in a DT, due to absorption and degradation from heterotrophic bacteria. Better to roll the dice on copper, because at least there are practical test kits for that.