How much PO4 does your system use?

[specialk]

So was running ULNS. Started to dose for Nitrates and Phosphate to get those #'s back into more positive range - specifically Nitrates; 7-10ppm and Po4 around 5-7.

Started dosing Brightwell NeoPhos and it was doing the trick (great stuff btw!) and rasing it 1 ppm a day. Things were going great and got my #'s up. ...specifically got my Po4 to around 7 and hovered there consistently for a few days ..

...then went out of town, came back after being away for 4 days and Po4 was back to 0.00!!!!

Wondering if any of you have ever dealt with this and if you were able to document and get data on how much po4 your system was using while you were in the process of bringing things back up from previously running an ULNS.

Btw .. have 155 gallons of total water. sps dominant system (mainly small colonies and frags). Calcium - 440, Alk - 9.0, Mag - 1350, Nitrates - Around 10--15

 

[jwshiver]

What methods are you using to run ULNS? Are you still running ULNS or stopping and trying to get your numbers up?

 

[jwshiver]

What methods are you using to run ULNS? Are you still running ULNS or stopping and trying to get your numbers up?

Sorry just saw you were previously running ULNS.
What method where you using? Zeovit, carbon dosing, etc.

 

[specialk]

Sorry just saw you were previously running ULNS.
What method where you using? Zeovit, carbon dosing, etc.

Was basically just running heavy gfo and rox carbon to the point I stripped the system of all nitrates and phosphate. Tested numerous times to confirm the numbers were at 0.00

 

[jwshiver]

I am running a Zeovit tank. My numbers where always zero and corals where starving. Several months ago I decided to stop Zeovit and bring my numbers up with NeoNitro and NeoPhos. Big mistake. I was adding 4 ml of NeoNitro and 0.5 ml of NeoPhos per day on a net 100 gallons just to get a reading of 3 for NO3 and .02 for PO4. Two weeks later my NO3 shot up within 2 days to 25 and ticked off everything in my tank. Lost several coral.
If I could do it all over again I would wait it out and let the numbers come up on their on without the addition of additives. One day I will learn to be patient with this hobby. I went back on Zeovit and have my numbers steady with the use of NeoNitro and NeoPhos. Tank is happy once again. Live and learn.

 

[zachxlutz]

My 150 gallon (total) system converts at LEAST .824+ ppm of nitrates to nitrogen gas and/or used by algae, coral, etc. I know this because I have to dose KNO3 to my system to maintain 5 ppm NO3. Over the course of 60 days, 49.48 ppm of nitrates were added to the system via KNO3. This doesn't take into account any NO3 being added to the system through feedings.

Throughout the time I've been dosing KNO3, I have removed any phosphate removing media (GFO) from the system. PO4 hovers around .03. I feed heavily and dose Vibrant weekly. Hope this helps!

It's hard to say what the consumption rate of PO4 is because I don't have a solid number on how much is actually being added to the system.

Following for more data from other reefers.

 

[TbyZ]

specifically Nitrates; 7-10ppm and Po4 around 5-7.

PO4...... 5 - 7 ppm ?

why would you want it so high?

 

[zachxlutz]

PO4...... 5 - 7 ppm ?

why would you want it so high?

Agreed. Those figures look too high.

 

[bif24701]

I have a 300 gallon system and when i let it go fallow to treat my fish NO3 and PO4 sank. PO4 slowly creeped back up but never NO3 so I added potassium nitrate. Reached 5 ppm after a few weeks and PO4 sank. The goal is it have balance stable nutrients. I feel there is no problem having zero testable nutrients but you need to feed a lot more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Typical phosphate coming from foods is about 0.02 to 0.3 ppm per day. So consumption can easily be roughly that same amount.

 

[zachxlutz]

Typical phosphate coming from foods is about 0.02 to 0.3 ppm per day. So consumption can easily be roughly that same amount.

Thank you for that information. How can this be tested?

 

[specialk]

Agreed. Those figures look too high.

"Standard/Recc." # is 3ppm. But there are PLENTY of reefers with PO4 around 5--7, even up to 10. It's all what works for your system, but there are plenty of people that have po4 readings above the "standard #" of 3.

In fact, there was a well known speaker at Magna years ago that gave a lecture on po4 and how his tank has high p04 and sps never looked better and how it was grossly over feared. Again, NOT AT ALL saying what it SHOULD be, but saying what works and is good for one system, is crap for anothers.

During the time I was bringing my #s back up, (test and test and trial and trial and see what works and how my system responds) I emailed all the 7 people I bought sps frags from at our local swap (all big time leaders in the hobby) and every single one of them had p04 between 5-10. ... SO, I decided I was going to slowly bring my p04 to that level and see how things responded over time.

 

[TbyZ]

"Standard/Recc." # is 3ppm.

Yeh, if you put some zeros & a dot in front of the 3 it is.

 

[TbyZ]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Recommended

Phosphate <0.03

 

[zachxlutz]

"Standard/Recc." # is 3ppm. But there are PLENTY of reefers with PO4 around 5--7, even up to 10. It's all what works for your system, but there are plenty of people that have po4 readings above the "standard #" of 3.

In fact, there was a well known speaker at Magna years ago that gave a lecture on po4 and how his tank has high p04 and sps never looked better and how it was grossly over feared. Again, NOT AT ALL saying what it SHOULD be, but saying what works and is good for one system, is crap for anothers.

During the time I was bringing my #s back up, (test and test and trial and trial and see what works and how my system responds) I emailed all the 7 people I bought sps frags from at our local swap (all big time leaders in the hobby) and every single one of them had p04 between 5-10. ... SO, I decided I was going to slowly bring my p04 to that level and see how things responded over time.

I agree that slightly elevated levels of nutrients are beneficial but I think you're missing a decimal point. The school of thought is that you want just enough NO3 and PO4 to not starve the coral but not enough to promote algae outbreaks. Systems with higher nutrient levels that show little to no nuscience algae growth typically have huge colonies of coral with very little room to spare. The coral is outcompeting the algae for nutrient use. I think good target numbers for the average reefer attempting to keep SPS corals should be around 3-5ppm NO3 and .02-.03 PO4. Check out the spectracide stump remover thread for lots of discussion on this matter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for that information. How can this be tested?

You'd need to know exactly how much phosphate is in the foods you feed. That isn't available for all foods.

What data I could find at the time is in this article:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

"Standard/Recc." # is 3ppm. But there are PLENTY of reefers with PO4 around 5--7, even up to 10. It's all what works for your system, but there are plenty of people that have po4 readings above the "standard #" of 3.
.

As folks said, missing decimal points. We cannot have this sort of confusion in a science based forum.

 

[zachxlutz]

You'd need to know exactly how much phosphate is in the foods you feed. That isn't available for all foods.

What data I could find at the time is in this article:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Thanks for the link. Your help around here is invaluable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the link. Your help around here is invaluable.

Thanks.

Happy Reefing.

 

[specialk]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Recommended

Phosphate <0.03

Yes I did MEAN 0.03.

Ansd yes that is the reccomended, but I do NOT AT ALL agree with that being the set # of po4 and that is what everyone should keep theirs at. is it a good starting point ... sure. But reccomendation means just that ... "reccomended"