How to Quarantine

VJV · Mar 9, 2017

sigmarabi1 said:
Hello there!!! I'm at the end of week 1 of cupramine treatment in my 32G and 10G HT's following an ich outbreak (powder blue started it). Unfortunately, I have lost my yellow tang, sailfin tang, and today my powder blue died . Still have two clowns,a royal granma, cardinal, aurora goby, flameback angel in my 10G plus 2 anthias and a hippo tang in the 32G HT. They are eating and doing well.
My powder,however, had stopped eating for a few days before it died but yellow and sailfin were eating and doing well and they still died. I think my mistake was to dose cupramine too quickly (I followed recommendation by LFS friend); I went with full dosis on days 1 and 2, and 1/2 dosis on day 3 and that, I believe, sent my tangs to downward spiral to their demise so lesson learned.
I also did not seed any sponges in my display tank prior to start the HT's so I'm experiencingsome ammonia levels which I need to correct. I performed 50% WH on both tanks to control ammonia (Copper level is still at therapeutic level since it was very high before). My question is, Is it too late to use BioSpira or Stability to try to control ammonia? What about Prime?

If I am reading this correctly you have SERIOUSLY OVERDOSED your tank! Full dosis on day and two plus half dose? So you basically dosed 1,5x the required level and instead of 0,5 concentration you were at 1,5...? If that is the case I wonder how any of your fish would still be alive.

Get a Seachem kit and test! Instructions state half dose (0,25 concentration) on day one, another half dose 48h later to bring up to 0,5 . I have typically had more success raising just 0,1 per day for 5 days.

sigmarabi1 · Mar 9, 2017

VJV said:
If I am reading this correctly you have SERIOUSLY OVERDOSED your tank! Full dosis on day and two plus half dose? So you basically dosed 1,5x the required level and instead of 0,5 concentration you were at 1,5...? If that is the case I wonder how any of your fish would still be alive.

Get a Seachem kit and test! Instructions state half dose (0,25 concentration) on day one, another half dose 48h later to bring up to 0,5 . I have typically had more success raising just 0,1 per day for 5 days.

Yes you read correctly and this has bugged me for some time

I have corrected the error since and have been able to maintain the appropriate level thus saving most of my fish. I wish I had read this thread before trusting my LFS. Thanks for your input.

VJV · Mar 9, 2017

Good thing you were able tp save some of the fish. Always a steep learning curve this hobby. This thread and the people here are extremely knowledgeable snd helpfull, so do not hesitate to post further questions.

Congaken · Mar 9, 2017

VJV said:
Good thing you were able tp save some of the fish. Always a steep learning curve this hobby. This thread and the people here are extremely knowledgeable snd helpfull, so do not hesitate to post further questions.

I am not "extremely knowledgeable"...only "somewhat", but it seems to me that you are overstocking these tanks with fish...before using the hp, I count 12 fish in a 32 gal. tank...strikes me as quite an overload...what do others think?

Humblefish · Mar 9, 2017

VJV said:
If I am reading this correctly you have SERIOUSLY OVERDOSED your tank! Full dosis on day and two plus half dose? So you basically dosed 1,5x the required level and instead of 0,5 concentration you were at 1,5...? If that is the case I wonder how any of your fish would still be alive.

Get a Seachem kit and test! Instructions state half dose (0,25 concentration) on day one, another half dose 48h later to bring up to 0,5 . I have typically had more success raising just 0,1 per day for 5 days.

Good catch

Brew12 · Mar 9, 2017

Congaken said:
I am not "extremely knowledgeable"...only "somewhat", but it seems to me that you are overstocking these tanks with fish...before using the hp, I count 12 fish in a 32 gal. tank...strikes me as quite an overload...what do others think?

It could be overloaded but there isn't a hard and fast rule. What a tank will support is largely dependent on the filtration equipment and husbandry practices of the hobbyist.

If the water quality is good and there isn't a stress issue with the fish interaction then the number of fish should be fine since this is only being used as an HT and not a DT.

VJV · Mar 9, 2017

Congaken said:
I am not "extremely knowledgeable"...only "somewhat", but it seems to me that you are overstocking these tanks with fish...before using the hp, I count 12 fish in a 32 gal. tank...strikes me as quite an overload...what do others think?

It is not ideal, but in emergencies such as these not a lot of us have big enough aquariums lying around so at least being able to do it is better than nothing.

These are also temporary arrangements so not such a big issue. Other than aggression (if you have aggressive/territorial fish such as tangs) the main things you need to watch out for are:

1- ammonia build up: for such a crowded tank I would do big (50% or more) daily water changes for the first week, and probably every two days the week after, until the biological filter is able to cope which can take a while. In my experience nothing kills tangs faster than ammonia + cupramine). Even if you have the ammonia badge, with such a large bioload you better not wait to see it going up to do it as it will be to late. Additionally, you are dosing copper which further hinders the biological filter so big water changes would be a must

2- oxygen: with such a crowded tank oxygen levels may deplete fast so keeping it aerated is a must, especially when dosing meds such as copper or praziquantel. Powerheads breaking the surface, air stones, skimmers or a combination would be highly advisable. I personally prefer the skimmer as you get the aeration without the salt creep and helps with removal of organics before they breakdown.

3- give them multiple places to hide, to reduce stress levels.

Congaken · Mar 9, 2017

Brew12 said:
It could be overloaded but there isn't a hard and fast rule. What a tank will support is largely dependent on the filtration equipment and husbandry practices of the hobbyist.

If the water quality is good and there isn't a stress issue with the fish interaction then the number of fish should be fine since this is only being used as an HT and not a DT.

Yeah, but could be in there a month...in a 10?...

Congaken · Mar 9, 2017

Humblefish said:
Good catch

This is a separate question...although related...My QT has the angel in there...doing OK, eating, not scratching...in for a month...right?...Anyhow...I'm changing water, but the ammonia levels are a little iffy on the badge...Is there a safe and effective product that will neutralize the ammonia even at the cost of long term cycling...its really too late to go through the steps that you had outlined such as soaking a sponge in a good tank...as I had said, using CP for what seemed to be velvet...thanks...

Humblefish · Mar 9, 2017

Congaken said:
This is a separate question...although related...My QT has the angel in there...doing OK, eating, not scratching...in for a month...right?...Anyhow...I'm changing water, but the ammonia levels are a little iffy on the badge...Is there a safe and effective product that will neutralize the ammonia even at the cost of long term cycling...its really too late to go through the steps that you had outlined such as soaking a sponge in a good tank...as I had said, using CP for what seemed to be velvet...thanks...

You can safely use an ammonia reducer with CP, just not copper.

VJV · Mar 10, 2017

Humblefish will likely chime in but as far as I am aware there is no safe ammonia reducer that can be used with Copper (not sure if CP you mean copper or Cloroquine Phosphate) and all are actually deadly in combination with Copper.

Also, as far as I am aware ammonia detox products such as Seachem Prime do not have a negative impact on the biological filter.

If you are getting ammonia readings do a large (80%) water change to bring it down. For a newly setup QT that is being medicated with copper it will likely take a long time (months) before the biological filter can cope. Probably a good idea would be to put a sponge in your main display as it will likely seed quicker than your QT.

Also, remember to add copper to the water change ahead of adding it to the tank so that levels do not drop from therapeutic level otherwise you could risk restarting the cycle.

Humblefish · Mar 10, 2017

VJV said:
Humblefish will likely chime in but as far as I am aware there is no safe ammonia reducer that can be used with Copper (not sure if CP you mean copper or Cloroquine Phosphate) and all are actually deadly in combination with Copper.

You can use ammonia reducer with CP (Chloroquine phosphate). But NOT copper.

Congaken · Mar 10, 2017

VJV said:
Humblefish will likely chime in but as far as I am aware there is no safe ammonia reducer that can be used with Copper (not sure if CP you mean copper or Cloroquine Phosphate) and all are actually deadly in combination with Copper.

Also, as far as I am aware ammonia detox products such as Seachem Prime do not have a negative impact on the biological filter.

If you are getting ammonia readings do a large (80%) water change to bring it down. For a newly setup QT that is being medicated with copper it will likely take a long time (months) before the biological filter can cope. Probably a good idea would be to put a sponge in your main display as it will likely seed quicker than your QT.

Also, remember to add copper to the water change ahead of adding it to the tank so that levels do not drop from therapeutic level otherwise you could risk restarting the cycle.

Thanks, Viv...using Chloroquine Phosphate...all seems well...

Congaken · Mar 13, 2017

Humblefish said:
You can safely use an ammonia reducer with CP, just not copper.

Humble (is that you're real name?)...angel has been in CP QT for a week tomorrow...never had any signs of velvet, only the behavioral issues in the DT...all fish in DT seem fine...only thing is that the angel does not seem too happy in QT...he is eating a little...swimming about...offered live brine, ate some...please give me a time line if I do not see any symptoms in QT or DT?...of course can't rush...but no flashing or anything in QT...changed 25% water today and added appropriate CP as soon as the new water went in...thanks for all of your help...Ken

Humblefish · Mar 13, 2017

Congaken said:
Humble (is that you're real name?)...angel has been in CP QT for a week tomorrow...never had any signs of velvet, only the behavioral issues in the DT...all fish in DT seem fine...only thing is that the angel does not seem too happy in QT...he is eating a little...swimming about...offered live brine, ate some...please give me a time line if I do not see any symptoms in QT or DT?...of course can't rush...but no flashing or anything in QT...changed 25% water today and added appropriate CP as soon as the new water went in...thanks for all of your help...Ken

If you can transfer him into a different QT (at least 10 feet away), then you can move him out of CP after 2 weeks. Only the fish gets transferred... nothing else from the "treatment tank" gets reused in QT#2. This is like doing a tank transfer.

Bobby

Congaken · Mar 13, 2017

Humblefish said:
If you can transfer him into a different QT (at least 10 feet away), then you can move him out of CP after 2 weeks. Only the fish gets transferred... nothing else from the "treatment tank" gets reused in QT#2. This is like doing a tank transfer.

Bobby