Ich Problem, Please Help

Brew12

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I don't want to get into a joust. I will concede and refrain from making observed hypothesis of ubiquitous parasites until proven in the scientific community. Sorry to interject.
I think interjections like this are important. I hope you didn't feel like I was attacking you. I believe respectful conversations like this are important in furthering the knowledge of the reefing community. So much of this hobby is conjecture and opinion. Cryptocaryon Irritans are one of the few parts of the hobby that are well documented by scientific studies. That said, we still need to know more...
There is a ton of bad information surrounding this hobby and the problem is only made worse by forums like this. Myths abound and are supported by other peoples posts until they appear to become fact. Even very experienced hobbyists can come to believe things that aren't true if they appear to make sense. Another one that immediately comes to mind is that all aquariums will develop nitrites during their cycle. Science now shows that Nitrospira bacteria convert ammonia directly to nitrate within their cell structure. Dr Tim used this bacteria when he developed Biospira (hence the name) and still uses it as part of his own branded One and Only.

My offer to post the scientific studies my comments are based on was a sincere one in the event you wanted to dig into them and read the research yourself. I just don't have the links readily available but if I would dig them up if it was something you would like to read.
 

Breakthecycle2

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Figure out if it's ich. Read the info on this site. Then if it's ich just ditch the fish. Give it to a store or just dispose of it. It's a chromis. Like a $5 fish. Then let tank lay fallow for the 72 days. Buying Meds, a qt, test kit for the meds. Plus ******* off ur parents is a high price to pay to save a $5 fish. And make sure whatever fish u get down the line look perfect. I'm dealing w ich in my tank and have to set up a hospital tank to treat my fish and let the tank lay fallow bc if u don't get rid of ich it will haunt u forever.

If you are suggesting killing a fish because it simply has ICH, you have no business being in this hobby. I don't care if it cost $400 or $1.
 

Striperviper

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You guys kill me. If u read I said first try to give the fish back to a store. But yeah if he can't give away a sick fish and a hospital tank isn't an option for whatever reasons yeah I say kill it. I guess ur suggestion would be to let it live out its life with ich? Miserable and scratching against rocks and whatever ich feels like for fish? And infecting every other fish he adds to the tank? He stated a qt isn't an option and he can't treat properly in his tank which we all should understand. So he can humanely dispose of this one fish or battle ich forever in his tank. I'm not one to just kill things for no reason but if you guys have a better suggestion I'd love to hear it. He said he can't qt. Copper or tank transfer are the only ways to effectively treat ich and he needs to either lay the tank fallow for 72 days or start over completely. If you are all so worried about fish dying get out of this hobby bc millions of fish die every year because of this hobby for a number of reasons.
 

melypr1985

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I find the tone of this thread has taken a dark turn. Let's ALL try to lighten it up a bit. This forum is about being kind to each other and having a bit of respect for your fellow members. Disagreeing will always happen and a healthy discussion on the merits of certain ways of doing things is a good thing. But the tone counts. This isn't directed at any SINGLE person, but all the participants of this thread as a whole.
 

4FordFamily

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You guys kill me. If u read I said first try to give the fish back to a store. But yeah if he can't give away a sick fish and a hospital tank isn't an option for whatever reasons yeah I say kill it. I guess ur suggestion would be to let it live out its life with ich? Miserable and scratching against rocks and whatever ich feels like for fish? And infecting every other fish he adds to the tank? He stated a qt isn't an option and he can't treat properly in his tank which we all should understand. So he can humanely dispose of this one fish or battle ich forever in his tank. I'm not one to just kill things for no reason but if you guys have a better suggestion I'd love to hear it. He said he can't qt. Copper or tank transfer are the only ways to effectively treat ich and he needs to either lay the tank fallow for 72 days or start over completely. If you are all so worried about fish dying get out of this hobby bc millions of fish die every year because of this hobby for a number of reasons.

We are suggesting to make qt an option. Better late than never. We are just saying it's unkind to suggest someone flush a live animal and knowingly kill it, especially that way.
 

domination2580

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You guys kill me. If u read I said first try to give the fish back to a store. But yeah if he can't give away a sick fish and a hospital tank isn't an option for whatever reasons yeah I say kill it. I guess ur suggestion would be to let it live out its life with ich? Miserable and scratching against rocks and whatever ich feels like for fish? And infecting every other fish he adds to the tank? He stated a qt isn't an option and he can't treat properly in his tank which we all should understand. So he can humanely dispose of this one fish or battle ich forever in his tank. I'm not one to just kill things for no reason but if you guys have a better suggestion I'd love to hear it. He said he can't qt. Copper or tank transfer are the only ways to effectively treat ich and he needs to either lay the tank fallow for 72 days or start over completely. If you are all so worried about fish dying get out of this hobby bc millions of fish die every year because of this hobby for a number of reasons.
I think the message was supposed to go across as "you shouldnt kill fish because of disease..." you could always try to find another person to take it in amd treat it. [emoji4] but if it's In a dt already you infect the dt so essentially to be completely ich free you would either have to set a qt anyway to treat all fish or give all fish away to someone who can qt amd treat...either way I find a qt am essential in this hobby...it's not the dishes fault it got ich so why punish it by putting it down? Just to hopefully help
 

Humblefish

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We are suggesting to make qt an option. Better late than never. We are just saying it's unkind to suggest someone flush a live animal and knowingly kill it, especially that way.

+1 Especially when the OP is a newbie, a young man we should be helping by pointing him in the right direction. Killing an animal with a very treatable disease should never be an option IMO. Euthanasia is not something which should ever be taken lightly, and should be reserved for when an animal is suffering with little to no hope of survival.

It would surprise most people to know that ich is very common with fish in the wild: http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/25/d025p159.pdf

Of course, ich is a lot more difficult to manage in a closed system than in the vastness of the ocean; but it is still possible and done quite often: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
 

domination2580

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+1 Especially when the OP is a newbie, a young man we should be helping by pointing him in the right direction. Killing an animal with a very treatable disease should never be an option IMO. Euthanasia is not something which should ever be taken lightly, and should be reserved for when an animal is suffering with little to no hope of survival.

It would surprise most people to know that ich is very common with fish in the wild: http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/25/d025p159.pdf

Of course, ich is a lot more difficult to manage in a closed system than in the vastness of the ocean; but it is still possible and done quite often: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
Nicely put humblefish.
 

Bob Escher

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Try using hydroplex it's good stuff and you can put it in the tank. It will kill ICH velvet and other external parasites
 

Brew12

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Try using hydroplex it's good stuff and you can put it in the tank. It will kill ICH velvet and other external parasites
I would be interested in knowing just how effective it is. It actually looks promising if it works as advertised.

The issue is that you cannot use it in a DT. It would need to be used in a HT or as a dip.
 

Humblefish

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Try using hydroplex it's good stuff and you can put it in the tank. It will kill ICH velvet and other external parasites
I would be interested in knowing just how effective it is. It actually looks promising if it works as advertised.

The issue is that you cannot use it in a DT. It would need to be used in a HT or as a dip.

I've never tried it myself, but I have had extensive conversations with Ruby Reef about their products. Rally is pretty useful to have around because it contains acriflavine, a first aid antiseptic.

The gentleman I spoke with claims that Hydroplex removes "surface parasites & worms". So, velvet, flukes, brook would all fall into that category. When I asked point blank does it eradicate them 100%, he said that would be impossible to determine. o_O He also said Hydroplex cannot remove "deeply embedded parasites such as ich."

So basically, Hydroplex is a safer alternative to using formalin. Same as Seachem Paraguard. Assuming they both work as advertised. :confused:
 

Brew12

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He also said Hydroplex cannot remove "deeply embedded parasites such as ich."
Was this in reference to using it as a bath? I saw that their website also includes dosing recommendations for longer term exposure in a HT. This might make it a more gentle option than copper but it sounds like it would take some more testing.
 

Empress

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About 11 years ago I bought my very first saltwater fish from my lfs. A Sailfin Tang. It got ich right away. My lfs told me to drop the salinity down to 1.011 for a couple weeks. I did that and I bought a bottle of Ruby Reef Kick-Ich. I followed the directions on the bottle exactly. My corals survived but I almost lost the brittle star. He didn't like it and curled up in the top corner of the tank. Miraculously ALL the fish and corals survived. Today I still have both the Tang and the brittle star. Parasite-free and totally eradicated.

I realize Ruby products are not considered a 100% sure way of eradicating parasites, but if the op can't quarantine, then maybe he should try it anyway. Better than killing the fish. Who knows, maybe it will work as it did for me.
 

Humblefish

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Was this in reference to using it as a bath? I saw that their website also includes dosing recommendations for longer term exposure in a HT. This might make it a more gentle option than copper but it sounds like it would take some more testing.

He was recommending a 10 minute bath on all new fish. That is the scenario we were discussing. He didn't mention anything about long-term exposure. My conversation with him was about 2 years ago, so maybe this is a newer thing.
 
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SourAngelfish

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It turned out that the fish was disease free... unfortunately the fish did pass (pet sitter accidentally dumped in all of the food ☹️). I did however fallow my tank for about 3 months and now I have a hector goby which is doing fine and has no sign of disease. Next time I'm definitely going to quarantine.
 
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