Is Marine Pure releasing Aluminum? And is it haven't any ill effect on your ...

[spspirate]

I know that this discussion has surfaced on RC but I would love to get an idea if any of you guys are running this ceramic media (for how long) and are you seeing any effects positive or negative in your reef tank? How is the color, growth polyp extension on your SPS and LPS corals? And if at all is this media releasing aluminum in a way thats toxic to our reef inhabitants?
I have a new system thats cycling at the moment (150 gallons) with a 8x8x4" block of Marine Pure in my sump. No corals no fish as of yet. I haven't done a Triton test to see if I have raised aluminum concentration yet either.

 

[tonymission]

I saw that thread so decided to put PolyFilter in my sock to see if it changed red with aluminum filtering and it's still white as day.
I personally don't buy it at this point...

 

[pciscott]

It is great we have new methods of testing, with that said we do not know what these new tests mean? Is the sky falling?

Many Triton results are showing high Tin, high Aluminum, and high Lithium in the US, but most of these tanks are still thriving? So what do these test results mean?

I do have a 125 gallon system with 4 gallons of Marine Pure media that is doing well, and I did have small traces of aluminum in the water that was not present in my 400 that does not have Marine Biopure. I too have put in a poly pad and it has not changed colors?

Is the test reading a form of inert aluminum bi product or is the sky falling, time will only tell?

So the question is what will hurt my tank more?

Leaving it alone and trusting a media that shows great results in many tanks?

Taking it off line and changing a big portion of biological filtration on your system.

Change is not always good in a reef tank?

I plan to keep running mine until we understand better what these new test results mean.

My results showed my nitrate and phosphate much lower than my tests showed so I am going to start feeding more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are at least three separate questions here, and it may take substantial time for the answers to become clear. Now that testing is more widely available, we may make faster progress, but answers won't happen fast unless the problem is a clear issue that happens almost instantly (and it appears to not to, unless the doses of aluminum are fairly high).

After all, it is relatively hard to pin down chronic effects. How long did it take people, who are obviously intimately aware of whether they are alive or dead, to realize that cigarette smoking causes deaths?

The questions are:

1. Is aluminum released from Marine Pure. (Still an open question, but related materials appear to do so).
2. If so, what form: particulate aluminum oxide or soluble aluminum ions.
3. If anything is released, is it in sufficient quantities to harm corals or other organisms.

IMO, you need to ask yourself what is the risk/benefit trade off of using aluminum oxide objects.

If you are among those who would have stopped smoking as soon as there were some initial studies that smoking was risky, you might want to stop now.

If you were among those who would smoke until it was clearly demonstrated in multiple tests that smoking was risky, you might want to wait.

if you are among those who still smoke, then you probably won't remove the media, regardless of what others find.

 

[droblack]

lol, that was great Randy Holmes-Farley. The thing most people don't consider about "sufficient quantities to harm corals or other organisms" is that this assumes there are no other source of contaminants, that there is some sort of export mechanism for contaminants, and that there is no build up of contaminants. Too much to consider, so I fall into group 1.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I saw that thread so decided to put PolyFilter in my sock to see if it changed red with aluminum filtering and it's still white as day.
I personally don't buy it at this point...

Do you know what levels it takes to turn a polyfilter red? Does it ever do so in seawater, where aluminum takes different forms than freshwater?

Personally I'm highly skeptical that aluminum ion ever turns a polyfilter red. Aluminum ions themselves are colorless in almost every situation. Color comes from other ions that bind to them. Try finding any reported aluminum compound that is red by googling. I couldn't. I also do not believe that the polyfilter itself contains chromophores. All of the other colors they report come from the metal ions themselves.

 

[pciscott]

So smoking is bad for you something we all know.

Does Triton test prove that Marine Pure is bad for your tank?

If this is the case should I be more worried about Aluminum from the Marine Pure(45.21ug/l), or the Lithium from my salt(578.80ug/l)?

Should results factor in on our decisions?

Randy my Aluminum reads 45.21 ug/l on my Triton test. I have 4 gallons of media on a 125 gallon system that has been running for 6 months. Is this a dangerous level?

Any thoughts on how to export Aluminum?

Thank you, Scott

 

[spspirate]

Will running GFO absorb it or does it matter what form of aluminum is being released in order for it to do that?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So smoking is bad for you something we all know.

Does Triton test prove that Marine Pure is bad for your tank?

If this is the case should I be more worried about Aluminum from the Marine Pure(45.21ug/l), or the Lithium from my salt(578.80ug/l)?

Should results factor in on our decisions?

Randy my Aluminum reads 45.21 ug/l on my Triton test. I have 4 gallons of media on a 125 gallon system that has been running for 6 months. Is this a dangerous level?

Any thoughts on how to export Aluminum?

Thank you, Scott

We know now that smoking is bad. We did not know it for decades when people first started smoking.

Is aluminum the same? We don't know.

Your aluminum is lower than many peoples, and is lower than I found an acute issue when I tested aluminum ions (0.5 ppm was an issue, 0.05 ppm (50 ppb) was not) but that was an acute test and was aluminum ions, which might possibly be different than what aluminum oxide materials release.

Ehsan of Triton thinks that GFO binds aluminum. Polyfilters may also, but I do not know that with any certainty.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Will running GFO absorb it or does it matter what form of aluminum is being released in order for it to do that?

Ehsan made an empirical observation (at least, that's what I've understood it to be) that it does bind it in reef tanks.

IMO, that implies it is aluminum ions, but that was not part of the observation.

 

[hart24601]

Remember that just because someone's tank is thriving it doesn't mean the system isn't impacted by high metals or other substances. Just that the current inhabitants are not sensitive. Ever have a coral die off when others are fine? Some systems seem like the just can't support _______ coral despite everything else that does well. Now I'm not saying this is always the case, but just something to keep in mind.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree. As a general rule, most of us lose organisms for reasons we never know. Every tank seems an evolutionary battle zone, and what survives is suited to the tank.

 

[erichatesmice]

Your analogy to smoking implies that you already have a bias against this particular product. Why compare to a product (smoking) that has in fact turned out to be harmful?

 

[erichatesmice]

I do want to add that I have great respect for your opinion and I understand that you have a wealth of knowledge on this subject matter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was pointing out that if it released aluminum, it could be toxic even if many reefers seem to have fine tanks when using it. smoking is another example of that which clearly makes that point so folks might understand the rationale.

I know aluminum is toxic, the only question is how much of what forms is released.

As to this product, since I know it contains aluminum oxide, it worries me, be the amount may be low enough to not be an issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do want to add that I have great respect for your opinion and I understand that you have a wealth of knowledge on this subject matter.

Thanks.

Happy Reefing.

 

[KoleTang]

Has any more info come out about this? I was considering using a block of this in the new build but now I'm not so sure.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Has any more info come out about this? I was considering using a block of this in the new build but now I'm not so sure.

Nothing much that I know of, but this person removed his block and aluminum by Triton went down:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...on-test-trying-out-science-4.html#post2197481

 

[KoleTang]

Nothing much that I know of, but this person removed his block and aluminum by Triton went down:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...on-test-trying-out-science-4.html#post2197481

Thanks Randy.

Do you have any recommendations for an alternative for biological filtration? Would a Zeolite reactor along with carbon dosing be more efficient?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have a special need for biological filtration that live sand or rock cannot meet?