Prized Fish -- Sudden illness, gill related.

[Rakie]

Lunate wrasse, the centerpiece of the tank has fallen ill. I'm going to write the symptoms as I saw them. I saw what looked like a black / dark fungus on his throat, between his gill plates. I only saw it briefly, and could NOT get a pic (I tried, he's got enough fight to hide from the camera still).

1st Day: One day out of the blue I noticed his gill plates were a little open -- And that he was breathing a little quicker than normal.

3rd Day: A few days later I noticed he was less interested in food, and had the same issues had become a bit more pronounced.

4th Day: Same, but I noticed he was finding comfort near the return jet and breathing had increased a bit more. I saw him shake his head, so I assumed flukes.

What I did
- Micro Bubbling -- I figured worst case scenario, it won't do anything.
- Turned off Skimmer
- Dosed 10ml Prime
- Dosed 5ml Prazipro

5th Day: Instant improvement. Fish was buzzing around the water column, back to being a little jerk.

8th Day: Carbon, Skimmer online. Wrasse looked good still.

9th Day: Wrasse looking bad again.

10th Day (Today): Wrasse looked at his worst. Stress colors up by the return, gasping for air. For a moment on his throat between his gill plates I saw what looked like fungus, or black mucus. It MAY have just been discolored(?) But I'm entirely not sure... I started bubbling immediately, and within about an hour the next time I saw the wrasse the discoloration was gone.

I've got the QT up, and i'll be struggling to catch him soon.

@mdbannister was over stealing my frags and suggested posting here... So any ideas? (If I can get a pic, I definitely will)

 

[GHsaltie]

Did you does the prazi a second time after 5-7 days? Also if you are able to trap the fish and do a freshwater dip that could confirm/rule out flukes, here's a link of how it's done https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12

 

[Brew12]

My concern is that it could be velvet. Swimming into the powerhead is never a good sign. Not only does velvet damage the gills directly but it also causes excess mucus creation in the gills which can suffocate the fish. That might be the buildup you observed.
Prazipro won't do much to cure velvet but I wouldn't be surprised if it could irritate it enough to alter its typical life cycle.

I wouldn't do any treatment based on my observation, there just isn't enough information. I think it would be wise to plan along these lines.

 

[Rakie]

Did you does the prazi a second time after 5-7 days? Also if you are able to trap the fish and do a freshwater dip that could confirm/rule out flukes, here's a link of how it's done https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12

I was unable to catch him so no dip.

My concern is that it could be velvet. Swimming into the powerhead is never a good sign. Not only does velvet damage the gills directly but it also causes excess mucus creation in the gills which can suffocate the fish. That might be the buildup you observed.
Prazipro won't do much to cure velvet but I wouldn't be surprised if it could irritate it enough to alter its typical life cycle.

I wouldn't do any treatment based on my observation, there just isn't enough information. I think it would be wise to plan along these lines.

Thanks, I had not seen any signs externally of velvet at all but anything is possible. Especially if the mucus is from Velvet

I will note he's not swimming into the powerhead / return, he's just hanging out at the top of the tank UNDER the return nozzle against the back wall (where there's almost no flow)

 

[melypr1985]

You will definitely want to do the second dose of prazi. If it's been less than 7 days you should be in time. I agree that velvet is a concern here, but it's best to finish out the prazi treatment real quick. If they get worse again, then you'll want to get a QT set up and copper ready to treat.

 

[4FordFamily]

I was unable to catch him so no dip.



Thanks, I had not seen any signs externally of velvet at all but anything is possible. Especially if the mucus is from Velvet

I will note he's not swimming into the powerhead / return, he's just hanging out at the top of the tank UNDER the return nozzle against the back wall (where there's almost no flow)

Trust me there are strains of velvet that don't show spots on even suceptible and weaker fish like tangs and angels, let alone wrasse with their thicker slime coats.

I wish you the best! I agree with @melypr1985 100%

 

[Rakie]

You will definitely want to do the second dose of prazi. If it's been less than 7 days you should be in time. I agree that velvet is a concern here, but it's best to finish out the prazi treatment real quick. If they get worse again, then you'll want to get a QT set up and copper ready to treat.

Trust me there are strains of velvet that don't show spots on even susceptible and weaker fish like tangs and angels, let alone wrasse with their thicker slime coats.

I wish you the best! I agree with @melypr1985 100%

Fish Update: Today the fish is looking better. His breathing is still atypical and a little quick, his Gills are still slightly open (from the front he's got Chipmunk face). But he's cruising the water column, eating, being a jerk to the blue flasher wrasse. Between his gill plates (throat area) is still a tiny bit brown/green, but it's subsided dramatically.. I Micro bubbled all night (@CoralNerd). It seem's to relieve his symptoms and calm breathing -- Twice now, after prolonged bubbling that 'mucus' on his throat has subsided.

I'm going to guess it either enriches the water with oxygen, or is some type of sorcery.

9:45am today: Skimmer / GAC off, Light dose of Prazipro to DT -- Will slowly build up to full dose today, just to make sure nothing too sudden happens.

__________________________________________________________________​

@melypr1985 -- Thank you. The QT is up, put in a few rocks from the sump and fresh floss in the HOB, as well as a small powerhead (250 gph) and a drop of AF Pro Bio S (Whenever I had fish with any symptoms of anything, AF Pro Bio S seems to alleviate stress... Not a commercial, true first hand experience) -- Water is testing well, all looks good with the QT -- Just need to trap him.. I keep saying "Swim into the net, I want to halp you." but he's not getting it.

@4FordFamily -- Thank you! Yeah I will absolutely take your word on this. I've never had sick marine fish, when I was younger my first tank was all disease resistant little guys. I mostly just tossed 'em in and there weren't problems. But watching a beautiful wrasse struggle to breathe really sucks, the price tag on these guys is just added insult to injury -_-

 

[4FordFamily]

Fish Update: Today the fish is looking better. His breathing is still atypical and a little quick, his Gills are still slightly open (from the front he's got Chipmunk face). But he's cruising the water column, eating, being a jerk to the blue flasher wrasse. Between his gill plates (throat area) is still a tiny bit brown/green, but it's subsided dramatically.. I Micro bubbled all night (@CoralNerd). It seem's to relieve his symptoms and calm breathing -- Twice now, after prolonged bubbling that 'mucus' on his throat has subsided.

I'm going to guess it either enriches the water with oxygen, or is some type of sorcery.

9:45am today: Skimmer / GAC off, Light dose of Prazipro to DT -- Will slowly build up to full dose today, just to make sure nothing too sudden happens.

__________________________________________________________________​

@melypr1985 -- Thank you. The QT is up, put in a few rocks from the sump and fresh floss in the HOB, as well as a small powerhead (250 gph) and a drop of AF Pro Bio S (Whenever I had fish with any symptoms of anything, AF Pro Bio S seems to alleviate stress... Not a commercial, true first hand experience) -- Water is testing well, all looks good with the QT -- Just need to trap him.. I keep saying "Swim into the net, I want to halp you." but he's not getting it.

@4FordFamily -- Thank you! Yeah I will absolutely take your word on this. I've never had sick marine fish, when I was younger my first tank was all disease resistant little guys. I mostly just tossed 'em in and there weren't problems. But watching a beautiful wrasse struggle to breathe really sucks, the price tag on these guys is just added insult to injury -_-

Yeah, I used to do the same. Velvet is so much more common now, that stuff just doesn't work anymore. I share your struggle, just lost several thousands dollars of fish during one vacation to a power outage, so... believe me I understand!

 

[Rakie]

Yeah, I used to do the same. Velvet is so much more common now, that stuff just doesn't work anymore. I share your struggle, just lost several thousands dollars of fish during one vacation to a power outage, so... believe me I understand!

ouch! Sorry to hear -_-

Update --

Fish Health: Is about the same, he's still impossible to catch so I've got a mixture of Masstik with pellets, Focus, and KanaPlex. I forgot to mix in a drop or two of Selcon though... So it's not as appealing as usual. I may take the leftovers and mix in a few drops for good measure.

Trap Up: But fish isn't interested in it.

Not sure if it's velvet, wouldn't he have been long gone if it was velvet? I've got almost no first hand experience with fish illness so I'm just guessing..

 

[4FordFamily]

ouch! Sorry to hear -_-

Update --

Fish Health: Is about the same, he's still impossible to catch so I've got a mixture of Masstik with pellets, Focus, and KanaPlex. I forgot to mix in a drop or two of Selcon though... So it's not as appealing as usual. I may take the leftovers and mix in a few drops for good measure.

Trap Up: But fish isn't interested in it.

Not sure if it's velvet, wouldn't he have been long gone if it was velvet? I've got almost no first hand experience with fish illness so I'm just guessing..

Not necessarily, wrasse can hold out quite awhile with it. If he's still around in a few days untreated I would rule out velvet, however.

 

[Rakie]

Not necessarily, wrasse can hold out quite awhile with it. If he's still around in a few days untreated I would rule out velvet, however.

It's almost 2 weeks now. But that's good to know. I'll probably not have a chance to get this fish again, let alone afford another one!

Dat college budget -_-

 

[Rakie]

So the little guy wont heal 100%, nor will he die. I suppose that's a good place to be at the moment...

So general update --
- Every morning he (and now my blue flasher too) kiss the surface water for about 5-10 minutes in stress colors.
- The Lunate has that black stuff in his gills in the AM only, it seems to go away after a little while but comes back every morning.
- After the morning he seems fine, but I can tell he's not 100% (The other fish show zero symptoms)
- He's more timid, he's eating less but still eating, he's hiding more of the day, and he's not being a jerk like usual

2 Rounds of Prazi, and 12 days of Focus, MetroPlex, and KanaPlex have all done nothing.

The Blue Flasher which has some symptoms was very curious about the net this morning so he's finally in the QT. The Lunate still remains illusive and weary of the trap.

So (assuming I ever catch the little bugger), do you guys have any ideas what this is, or other ways to trap the little dude? @Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12 @4FordFamily

 

[Brew12]

So the little guy wont heal 100%, nor will he die. I suppose that's a good place to be at the moment...

So general update --
- Every morning he (and now my blue flasher too) kiss the surface water for about 5-10 minutes in stress colors.
- The Lunate has that black stuff in his gills in the AM only, it seems to go away after a little while but comes back every morning.
- After the morning he seems fine, but I can tell he's not 100% (The other fish show zero symptoms)
- He's more timid, he's eating less but still eating, he's hiding more of the day, and he's not being a jerk like usual

2 Rounds of Prazi, and 12 days of Focus, MetroPlex, and KanaPlex have all done nothing.

The Blue Flasher which has some symptoms was very curious about the net this morning so he's finally in the QT. The Lunate still remains illusive and weary of the trap.

So (assuming I ever catch the little bugger), do you guys have any ideas what this is, or other ways to trap the little dude? @Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12 @4FordFamily

I'm at a loss as to the cause, but here is a very simple DIY fish trap.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-fish-trap.254279/

 

[Humblefish]

I'm at a loss as to the cause, but here is a very simple DIY fish trap.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-fish-trap.254279/

+1 Bottle trap is the way to go to catch wrasses.

Also, a photo or two might help with diagnosis.

 

[Rakie]

+1 Bottle trap is the way to go to catch wrasses.

Also, a photo or two might help with diagnosis.

I keep trying to get a pic but that black/green gunk is only really visible in the morning, and he presses that part against the painted back wall. It's like he knows exactly what I'm trying to get a pic of and hides it intentionally.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm completely at a loss without photos... sorry

The damaged gills tells me that it's probably a parasite but I'm not sure which?

 

[melypr1985]

I couldn't be sure either without seeing it. Maybe try a video?

 

[Rakie]

I can try again to get some pics but it's not been an easy mission.

 

[melypr1985]

I can try again to get some pics but it's not been an easy mission.

It's always tuff I know. Best of luck getting them though!!

 

[Brew12]

Any chance the coloration you ae seeing isn't real but an artifact with the tank lighting? Do you run more blues or reds in the morning when you notice it and then more whites when it goes away?