PROOF - Asterina Starfish Eating Zoas
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Anthony Calfo
Active Member
Yikes...horrifying to see an obligate echinoderm tube-feet eating organism recommended so freely 
After the Asterina are eradicated, what exactly will you be feeding the harlequin shrimp?
Calm, rational thinking, my friends. Look at the form and function of the Asterina's mouthparts...also look at its behaviors. It proliferates rapidly in most every tank, and yet droves of fishes and corals are not missing. in fact, you cant actually name whats missing can ya as they proliferate. But they must be growing from something. And they come out mostly at night. In fact, if you turn the lights on suddenly many hours after dark, you will see them all over the glass and rocks of course. Any hard substrates. Sometimes you can spot them snoozing by day below the sand on the glass...and then rise straight up that glass and out of the sand at night.
They principally eat diatoms, my friends. Brown algae. We all have it. On our glass, rocks, etc.
They are opportunistic though. I have indeed seen them on corals...sick and dying corals.
They have an undeserved bad rap. Its ironic to eradicate a "pest" population of them when their very presence in pest numbers indicates that you have a water quality problem or the beginning of one (ironically even more so indicated by the corals that start to die and get eaten by the helpful Asterina!).
They dont grow from thin air (or pure water, as it were) any more than Aiptasia do. If you have excess nutrients (and subsequently low Redox, flat pH and the other baggage that comes with that slippery slope) you will see an Asterina flare up as an early beacon. I'm not saying you have to agree they are beautiful, but don't shoot the messenger. They are just doing their jobs, and helpful jobs at that.
After the Asterina are eradicated, what exactly will you be feeding the harlequin shrimp?Calm, rational thinking, my friends. Look at the form and function of the Asterina's mouthparts...also look at its behaviors. It proliferates rapidly in most every tank, and yet droves of fishes and corals are not missing. in fact, you cant actually name whats missing can ya as they proliferate. But they must be growing from something. And they come out mostly at night. In fact, if you turn the lights on suddenly many hours after dark, you will see them all over the glass and rocks of course. Any hard substrates. Sometimes you can spot them snoozing by day below the sand on the glass...and then rise straight up that glass and out of the sand at night.
They principally eat diatoms, my friends. Brown algae. We all have it. On our glass, rocks, etc.
They are opportunistic though. I have indeed seen them on corals...sick and dying corals.
They have an undeserved bad rap. Its ironic to eradicate a "pest" population of them when their very presence in pest numbers indicates that you have a water quality problem or the beginning of one (ironically even more so indicated by the corals that start to die and get eaten by the helpful Asterina!).
They dont grow from thin air (or pure water, as it were) any more than Aiptasia do. If you have excess nutrients (and subsequently low Redox, flat pH and the other baggage that comes with that slippery slope) you will see an Asterina flare up as an early beacon. I'm not saying you have to agree they are beautiful, but don't shoot the messenger. They are just doing their jobs, and helpful jobs at that.
Anthony Calfo
Active Member
yours are just true vegetarians, my friend Appropriate too when you just have a few and they do not grow fast...like so many other creatures with potentially high fecundity, they can only wax with the presence of adequate food. if you dont have an algae problem, you wont be growing a huge population of Asterina. Enjoy them
Appropriate too when you just have a few and they do not grow fast...like so many other creatures with potentially high fecundity, they can only wax with the presence of adequate food. if you dont have an algae problem, you wont be growing a huge population of Asterina. Enjoy them 
sprinklerdudes
Valuable Member
I have had them for quite some time, I consider them part of a help ful clean up crew, they haven't gone after anything that was doing well, they stay mainly on the glass, I have seen them on receding calic etc, they took care of the rotton flesh, where I had bumped it off the rock, and ended up upside down for several days before I noticed it, put it back up right, but damage was done, stars took care of the bad part, the rest of the undamages calic was left untouched, and actually regrew rather quickly. I figured if they were harmful pest, they would have eaten all of it, not just the bad dying part, just my experiance
fab1971
Valuable Member
yours are just true vegetarians, my friend
Glad to have you aboard Anthony Calfo. From what I've read so far, your only posts have been helpful and informative. Thanks for sharing your unbiased knowledge with us :smile:
+1 the stars finish off dying polyps for sure. Healthy polyps are a completely different story.
Anthony Calfo
Active Member
Thanks kindly, Fab And regarding the thread here, I'd volunteer that I do keep a lot of zooanthids in many tanks, always have too...and I make a point of harvesting Asterina from mature tanks to put into new ones early to help with algae control. Thats how safe they are to me. You have a far greater chance of a blenny or tang nibbling your zoanthids than an Asternia by far.
And regarding the thread here, I'd volunteer that I do keep a lot of zooanthids in many tanks, always have too...and I make a point of harvesting Asterina from mature tanks to put into new ones early to help with algae control. Thats how safe they are to me. You have a far greater chance of a blenny or tang nibbling your zoanthids than an Asternia by far.
I have noticed what I will call two different "strands" of these. the most common I see are the ones that are all white, and then the ones that I have seen that have a slate grey/blackish back.
Its the later that I have also seen eating "healthy" zoas. I have never once seen the white ones bother any zoas and at one time had a friend tell me his RH zoas were eaten by asterinas-I thought he was mistaken/crazy.
Until I actual found a nice sized one munching away at my nightmares did I think he was mistaken, now I am a believer its the grey/black ones that I will pick out of my tank if I see any.
Its, not a cure but I compare it to picking up a piece of litter, you wont clean the world, but every little bit helps-LOL and only seeing this once out of 3 years, well do the math, I dont see my zoas going MIA or I woud have taken another approach
Its the later that I have also seen eating "healthy" zoas. I have never once seen the white ones bother any zoas and at one time had a friend tell me his RH zoas were eaten by asterinas-I thought he was mistaken/crazy.
Until I actual found a nice sized one munching away at my nightmares did I think he was mistaken, now I am a believer its the grey/black ones that I will pick out of my tank if I see any.
Its, not a cure but I compare it to picking up a piece of litter, you wont clean the world, but every little bit helps-LOL and only seeing this once out of 3 years, well do the math, I dont see my zoas going MIA or I woud have taken another approach
Yikes...horrifying to see an obligate echinoderm tube-feet eating organism recommended so freely
Calm, rational thinking, my friends. Look at the form and function of the Asterina's mouthparts...also look at its behaviors. It proliferates rapidly in most every tank, and yet droves of fishes and corals are not missing. in fact, you cant actually name whats missing can ya as they proliferate. But they must be growing from something. And they come out mostly at night. In fact, if you turn the lights on suddenly many hours after dark, you will see them all over the glass and rocks of course. Any hard substrates. Sometimes you can spot them snoozing by day below the sand on the glass...and then rise straight up that glass and out of the sand at night.
They principally eat diatoms, my friends. Brown algae. We all have it. On our glass, rocks, etc.
They are opportunistic though. I have indeed seen them on corals...sick and dying corals.
They have an undeserved bad rap. Its ironic to eradicate a "pest" population of them when their very presence in pest numbers indicates that you have a water quality problem or the beginning of one (ironically even more so indicated by the corals that start to die and get eaten by the helpful Asterina!).
They dont grow from thin air (or pure water, as it were) any more than Aiptasia do. If you have excess nutrients (and subsequently low Redox, flat pH and the other baggage that comes with that slippery slope) you will see an Asterina flare up as an early beacon. I'm not saying you have to agree they are beautiful, but don't shoot the messenger. They are just doing their jobs, and helpful jobs at that.
+1....fully agree with this.
Cheers,
Yikes...horrifying to see an obligate echinoderm tube-feet eating organism recommended so freely
Calm, rational thinking, my friends. Look at the form and function of the Asterina's mouthparts...also look at its behaviors. It proliferates rapidly in most every tank, and yet droves of fishes and corals are not missing. in fact, you cant actually name whats missing can ya as they proliferate. But they must be growing from something. And they come out mostly at night. In fact, if you turn the lights on suddenly many hours after dark, you will see them all over the glass and rocks of course. Any hard substrates. Sometimes you can spot them snoozing by day below the sand on the glass...and then rise straight up that glass and out of the sand at night.
They principally eat diatoms, my friends. Brown algae. We all have it. On our glass, rocks, etc.
They are opportunistic though. I have indeed seen them on corals...sick and dying corals.
They have an undeserved bad rap. Its ironic to eradicate a "pest" population of them when their very presence in pest numbers indicates that you have a water quality problem or the beginning of one (ironically even more so indicated by the corals that start to die and get eaten by the helpful Asterina!).
They dont grow from thin air (or pure water, as it were) any more than Aiptasia do. If you have excess nutrients (and subsequently low Redox, flat pH and the other baggage that comes with that slippery slope) you will see an Asterina flare up as an early beacon. I'm not saying you have to agree they are beautiful, but don't shoot the messenger. They are just doing their jobs, and helpful jobs at that.
I knew it wouldn't be long, Anthony! Here is the article I researched and published for our local club; The Southern Colorado Marine Aquarist Society
I have thousands of them in my 300. I have seen them on the Zoas and the Zoa is wide open, unaffected. I see them on the skeleton of my SPS. They will eat right along the line of the STN and coral flesh. IIRC, when I was researching the paper I found a source that said there were over 30 different variants of the Starfish.
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Anthony Calfo
Active Member
Can you pate the article or relevant parts, my friend? It looks like a login is required and some folks will not follow that far perhaps.
As most of us know we have seen a lot of these little, cute starfish in our tanks. We wonder if they are a good thing or bad thing in our self contained aquatic biospheres. Some say they are good, some say they are a nuisance and try to eradicate them using Harlequin Shrimp, tweezers, or any other way they can get them out of the tank.
"They feed on microscopically small invertebrates, carrion, detritus, microalgae and possibly bacterial films. Their enormous advantage lies in their small size - they only need small amounts of food to survive."[1]
The school is out on whether or not Asterinids are good or bad. What is known is that they do eat algae. Hobbyists have found them, doing what they believe is eating corals, but are they? When I had my 125 set up, I did see one leaving a white trail as he moved across one of my monti caps. I immediately went out and got a Harley to take care of them.
" This starfish is capable of destroying large colonies of Acropora. If you notice that your Acropora colonies start to turn bright white at the base in a sharp edged pattern you may have an infestation of the starfish. It is important that you remove the coral and search under the base for these starfish. This damage looks different from bleaching because the damage is very localized and it increases each day. This damage can cause bacteria to infect the damaged areas and this can cause the lose of the entire head. Many of the starfish varieties prefer Stylophora and Pocillopora. It is important to watch for white patches at the base of these corals."[2]
What is believed is that if Asterinids go after corals it is because the amount of algae in the tank is not enough to sustain them so they move on to the corals as a food source. Those that see them on zoas “eating them†it is usually a zoa that is unhealthy and the Asterinea is “culling†the colony. I, myself have seen Asterinids in the middle of a Zoa colony with no ill effects to the colony, or that particular Zoa.
"One, or perhaps more, species of small sea stars in the family Asterinidae is the only sea star that can be said to thrive in some reef aquaria at the present time. The species is indeterminate; its geographical origin is uncertain, and there are numerous similar described species. These are small brown, tan or grey animals, generally not more than about half an inch (13 mm) in diameter. Flattened from top to bottom, their three to seven rays and central disk merge into one another. They reproduce asexually by fission and if there is sufficient food almost all the stars in a population will be regenerating rays or other body parts. They are substrate feeders and move around with their stomachs extruded over the substrate digesting who knows what. It is a pity that these animals are so drab. In some systems, they are quite prolific and even if they don't thrive, they appear to be able to survive in most others. Occasionally, some populations of these asterinids have been reported by aquarists to eat either soft corals or stony corals. These coral-eating forms, perhaps different species, seem to be quite uncommon, constituting less than five percent of the various populations."[3]
With this being presented, my suggestion is to remove any of the starfish IF you see them presenting as a problem to your corals. Should populations get out of control, Harlequin Shrimp will cut down on the populations, however, the shrimp will only eat the feed of starfish and thus run out of food, unless fed or removed to another source of its food supply.
"With progress in natural marine aquarium keeping, increasing numbers of so-called "starfish" successfully reproduce. Applications like deep sand beds and refugium habitats seem to support such success. Some species may become a nuisance by their sheer numbers and prolific nature like Asterina, while others are clearly harmless or helpful by stirring detritus or consuming algae, for example."[4]
[1] Daniel Knop , Steinkorralen im Aquarium, Band 2. (Stony Corals in the Aquarium, Volume 2) Natur und Tierverlag, Munster, Germany. 2002
[2] Garf, GARF predatory starfish 11/25/01 2001
[3] Dr Ron Schmek, reefkeeping.com, Echinoderms in Aquaria... by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com 2004
[4] Anthony Calfo, reefkeeping.com, Starfish: Considerations for the Common (and Commonly Misunderstood) Varieties by Anthony Calfo - Reefkeeping.com 2004
"They feed on microscopically small invertebrates, carrion, detritus, microalgae and possibly bacterial films. Their enormous advantage lies in their small size - they only need small amounts of food to survive."[1]
The school is out on whether or not Asterinids are good or bad. What is known is that they do eat algae. Hobbyists have found them, doing what they believe is eating corals, but are they? When I had my 125 set up, I did see one leaving a white trail as he moved across one of my monti caps. I immediately went out and got a Harley to take care of them.
" This starfish is capable of destroying large colonies of Acropora. If you notice that your Acropora colonies start to turn bright white at the base in a sharp edged pattern you may have an infestation of the starfish. It is important that you remove the coral and search under the base for these starfish. This damage looks different from bleaching because the damage is very localized and it increases each day. This damage can cause bacteria to infect the damaged areas and this can cause the lose of the entire head. Many of the starfish varieties prefer Stylophora and Pocillopora. It is important to watch for white patches at the base of these corals."[2]
What is believed is that if Asterinids go after corals it is because the amount of algae in the tank is not enough to sustain them so they move on to the corals as a food source. Those that see them on zoas “eating them†it is usually a zoa that is unhealthy and the Asterinea is “culling†the colony. I, myself have seen Asterinids in the middle of a Zoa colony with no ill effects to the colony, or that particular Zoa.
"One, or perhaps more, species of small sea stars in the family Asterinidae is the only sea star that can be said to thrive in some reef aquaria at the present time. The species is indeterminate; its geographical origin is uncertain, and there are numerous similar described species. These are small brown, tan or grey animals, generally not more than about half an inch (13 mm) in diameter. Flattened from top to bottom, their three to seven rays and central disk merge into one another. They reproduce asexually by fission and if there is sufficient food almost all the stars in a population will be regenerating rays or other body parts. They are substrate feeders and move around with their stomachs extruded over the substrate digesting who knows what. It is a pity that these animals are so drab. In some systems, they are quite prolific and even if they don't thrive, they appear to be able to survive in most others. Occasionally, some populations of these asterinids have been reported by aquarists to eat either soft corals or stony corals. These coral-eating forms, perhaps different species, seem to be quite uncommon, constituting less than five percent of the various populations."[3]
With this being presented, my suggestion is to remove any of the starfish IF you see them presenting as a problem to your corals. Should populations get out of control, Harlequin Shrimp will cut down on the populations, however, the shrimp will only eat the feed of starfish and thus run out of food, unless fed or removed to another source of its food supply.
"With progress in natural marine aquarium keeping, increasing numbers of so-called "starfish" successfully reproduce. Applications like deep sand beds and refugium habitats seem to support such success. Some species may become a nuisance by their sheer numbers and prolific nature like Asterina, while others are clearly harmless or helpful by stirring detritus or consuming algae, for example."[4]
[1] Daniel Knop , Steinkorralen im Aquarium, Band 2. (Stony Corals in the Aquarium, Volume 2) Natur und Tierverlag, Munster, Germany. 2002
[2] Garf, GARF predatory starfish 11/25/01 2001
[3] Dr Ron Schmek, reefkeeping.com, Echinoderms in Aquaria... by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com 2004
[4] Anthony Calfo, reefkeeping.com, Starfish: Considerations for the Common (and Commonly Misunderstood) Varieties by Anthony Calfo - Reefkeeping.com 2004
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Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
Great read guys some valuable info for sure.... I love harlequin shrimps but I also love my linkia and sand sifting stars.... I'm gonna say to each there own but my astrenia are there to say.... Like I mentioned before they will attack dying or decaying corals including but not limited to acros, zoos and palys, etc... Poor little guys lol...
Fwiw mine are grey and black the worst kind I get from reading this thread.... If anyone would like some let me I'll ship ya a few....lol I like my little stars I feel bad most of them are deformed looking...
Fwiw mine are grey and black the worst kind I get from reading this thread.... If anyone would like some let me I'll ship ya a few....lol I like my little stars I feel bad most of them are deformed looking...
Anthony Calfo
Active Member
wow...thanks for the contribution!
I checked the links (I've been having trouble with adding links and seeing some...I think there may be some forum clipping glitch for long URLs)
the fourth citation (ironically mine) is here:
Starfish: Considerations for the Common (and Commonly Misunderstood) Varieties by Anthony Calfo - Reefkeeping.com
I checked the links (I've been having trouble with adding links and seeing some...I think there may be some forum clipping glitch for long URLs)
the fourth citation (ironically mine) is here:
Starfish: Considerations for the Common (and Commonly Misunderstood) Varieties by Anthony Calfo - Reefkeeping.com
Excellent discussion folks, just excellent! Tons of good information and good observations in this thread. Anthony thank you for your contributions and Murf thanks for posting that article!
Tabasco1
Valuable Member
"Yikes...horrifying to see an obligate echinoderm tube-feet eating organism recommended so freely After the Asterina are eradicated, what exactly will you be feeding the harlequin shrimp?"
+1 was thinking the same thing. Seems like there has not been a meeting of minds exactly as to if asterinas are good or bad or more likely if there is a sub species that could be the culprit where 95% are beneficial. Whatever the case, my .02 is that a Harlequin is not a viable option unless you are planning to dedicate yourself to supplying starfish arms for the life of the animal.
After the Asterina are eradicated, what exactly will you be feeding the harlequin shrimp?"+1 was thinking the same thing. Seems like there has not been a meeting of minds exactly as to if asterinas are good or bad or more likely if there is a sub species that could be the culprit where 95% are beneficial. Whatever the case, my .02 is that a Harlequin is not a viable option unless you are planning to dedicate yourself to supplying starfish arms for the life of the animal.
OceanMinded
Active Member
ive been tellin people this and no one listened to me!
Ive always noticed those stars attacking my zoa's
Ive always noticed those stars attacking my zoa's
OP
OP
kron
Community Member
Thanks for all the info!! It seems I need to pay closer attention to my water params than I have been. For one my trusty ph controller is reading about .4 more than my manual tests read. Oh the joy..
As for these pests, I'll be pulling them out of the tank when I see them. Regardless of if they are going to harm health or damaged zoas, I want to have the chance to treat them and see if they will recover before becoming a snack for scavengers.
As for these pests, I'll be pulling them out of the tank when I see them. Regardless of if they are going to harm health or damaged zoas, I want to have the chance to treat them and see if they will recover before becoming a snack for scavengers.
Brent Ward
Fanworm farmer
Mine always eat the coralline algae.
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