Airborne Palytoxins?

[Mono]

Any fellow reefers have some thoughts on the article linked below?

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-palytox...s-deadly-poison-sickening-family-dogs-2669673

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Palytoxin almost certainly cannot evaporate into the air from reef tank water or from a coral directly when taken out of the water. It's molecular weight is huge (2680 g/mole) and it will have virtually no vapor pressure.

But reef tanks have several ways that water droplets can get sent into the air, and they may contain toxins (they will contain everything that is in the tank water). Bubble popping, skimmers, etc. There may also be ways from a coral directly, by splattering, etc.

There are plenty of reports of inhalation issues, and I expect they relate to droplets more than evaporation, even if the droplets are too small to see readily:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5099280/

That all said, the exact mechanism doesn't matter if inhalation issues can happen.

 

[Lance Fjeseth]

I have so many questions... What else was in the tank? Type of rock and its origin (live, dry)? What process exactly he was using to clean the rock? What else was on the rock (he mentioned pulsing xenia)? What other corals were in the tank? How do you scrape a rock and get airborne particles or fumes at a level to sicken the whole family? We need more information.

 

[Mono]

Have any reefers had experiences like the one referenced above? I wonder how common it is?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Have any reefers had experiences like the one referenced above? I wonder how common it is?

There are quite a few threads around with experiences.

 

[Mono]

Anyway, it's a strong argument to NOT go through the trouble of cleaning your tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/g...tact-me-about-my-palytoxin-experience.210603/

 

[Mono]

So a mask and gloves might be a reasonable precaution.

 

[Fourstars]

Just don’t scrap, boil, bleach, acid bath, or squish them. If you are fragging them then glasses and gloves are a good idea. Yes, I experienced this toxin first hand, think of the worst flu you have every had.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I have also had an experience where I had a mild exposure to pally toxin. In my case, it was so mild that it did not occur to me until after it had passed and I connected the dots as to the cause. For me it was a wake up call that some inhabitants in my tank are harbouring this toxin. I was aware of the potential danger, and had a face shield and respirator on hand, but was not wearing them at the time when I did a bit of sculpting on a rock removed from the tank that housed pallys without thinking about it.

In my case, it is pallythoa's that were the culprit, but it can also be carried by zooanthids and corallimorphs. So caution is warranted when dealing with any coral that may contain the toxin.

Dennis

 

[Greybeard]

Pulsing xenia? That's a new one on me... I used to use the stuff for nutrient export, growing it on PVC sheets in my sump, harvesting it with an ice scraper once a month. Never took any sort of caution with it.

 

[evoreefer1320]

Almost every experience i have read about have been about palyzoas. I have been battling some dino's i know they can have palytoxin also. Has anyone ever had any issues getting sick from dino's in a reef tank?

 

[Mono]

Randy,

It does beg the question,

Is there a better or best way to handle live rock after you remove it from you tank?

Boiling it does not seem the way to go.

 

[FredsNJReef]

Wouldn't the acid bath treatment release the toxins if they are imbedded in the rocks as well?

 

[Fourstars]

Forgot that one. That's how I released them, vinegar bath.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,

It does beg the question,

Is there a better or best way to handle live rock after you remove it from you tank?

Boiling it does not seem the way to go.

Remove it for what purpose?

 

[Mono]

Well, I guess because you are re-scaping your tank.

I just did it myself. Removed about 40lbs of rock to get better flow and a cleaner, less cluttered look. Most of it had been in the tank 2 or more years and had all kinds of growth - some polyps, xenia, etc.

Is there a best practice?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, I guess because you are re-scaping your tank.

I just did it myself. Removed about 40lbs of rock to get better flow and a cleaner, less cluttered look. Most of it had been in the tank 2 or more years and had all kinds of growth - some polyps, xenia, etc.

Is there a best practice?

Gloves and glasses would be a minimum, unless you know you have a lot of these sorts of corals, in which case more care is needed.

There are lots of other good reasons to use heavy gloves as well, such as underwater cuts on live rock that are easily infected.

 

[Fourstars]

 

[Mono]

Gloves and glasses would be a minimum, unless you know you have a lot of these sorts of corals, in which case more care is needed.

There are lots of other good reasons to use heavy gloves as well, such as underwater cuts on live rock that are easily infected.

But how should you treat the rock once it's removed - just let it dry out? Bleach bath? Vinegar bath? Some other way?

It is kind of smelly left untreated.