“And Bingo...Dino DNA!” How did you beat them? Real experiences only

[Twillyg21]

Alright, hopefully the video provided a bit of a light-hearted intro to a not-so-light-hearted topic of discussion....Dinoflagellates!!

I know this topic has been beaten to death, however since I gather that it is probably the #1 discouragement and source of abuse for those unlucky souls who encountered the reefing devil to want to, or actually do, nuke a tank and walk away from the hobby altogether, I feel like it is an important topic to yet again consolidate everyone’s experiences.

So, let’s hear the war stories of your battles with Dinos!

What were the circumstances that led to a Dino bloom? If you know what caused it, great! If not, what was the state of your tank when they appeared? (Parameters, equipment, new additions, nutrient levels, age of tank, and anything else you think is important to mention)

What did you do on your own to try and solve the problem once it appeared? Did you try anything on your own at first, or did you go straight to the forums for answers?

What advice seemed the most promising at the time when you were faced with the problem? How and where did you discover this information? Did it help?

What bad advice did you follow that made the problem worse, hurt your tank, or caused your tank to completely crash? We’ve all been panicked and acted on the first piece of advice given only to have the problem get worse, or a new problem appear as a result only to look back on it or discover later that the advice you followed was not good and sometimes not even based on science or personal experience.

Were you able to beat the Dinoflagellates? If so, how? Please be specific knowing that today, tomorrow, or 5 years from now some poor desperate reefer is going to read your post and probably attempt it in their own system.

What do you know now that you wish you would’ve known then? What would you do differently? I know for myself, I learned that when starting a tank, it’s equally as important to not have too good of nutrient consumption, as it is to have filtration that can’t keep up. A new tank is a fragile world in which a misdirected fart can cause detrimental swings in water chemistry, and to just sit back and let natural processes do their thing. It’s been doing it’s thing for millions of years, so what do I think I’m bringing to the table to improve on the ancient and delicate balance of an establishing reef environment?

If you could provide words of comfort/caution to someone in the throws of a Dino battle, what would you say?

So let’s help some people out and have some fun while we help! With Dinos..gotta laugh to keep from crying right?

I’ll kick things off in my next post. Thanks all!

-T

 

[Twillyg21]

This is a post I just made to try and help someone with some advice/personal experience:


“So what’s your plan? Because I can’t think of anything else to try that wasn’t already mentioned aside from nuking the tank and starting over. I would suggest that you immediately add both copepods and phyto, stop doing water changes, leave the sand alone (as soon as you stir up the sand bed they will start to take hold again) Don’t scrape/clean the glass and let the algae on the glass be food for your micro fauna which will outcompete the dinos. You will also see the copepods starting to eat the algae on the glass, but also the dinos too. You mentioned (I think) that the dinos poison the pods? I haven’t ever noticed that as a problem, considering the overwhelming numbers of the pods when you add enough. Do all of those things and then get your nutrients up and your problem may go away or at least make it more manageable.

I swear by the Dr Tim’s Dino program though as I tried EVERYTHING and the thing that finally kicked them was Dr Tim’s and everything else that I mentioned to increase biodiversity

Biodiversity is key!

Hopefully you try all or at least some of this. Usually the suggestions on here are a result of something that worked for us. The trick is, finding what will work for your specific eco system and your specific species of dinos.
Good luck though! You can fix this and you will learn a ton in the process. Just be open to advice if asking for help. I learned quickly in this hobby that there is so much to be learned from other reefer’s mistakes and successes.

Remember, we don’t even know how much we don’t know about this hobby. Listen to those who’ve been in the hobby for many years. Chances are they’ve encountered every pest, algae, parasite, disease, equipment failure, water chemistry issues, and so on. A wealth of knowledge to draw from. That is what I did when I first started and what I continue to do.

I would also encourage you to think through all of the most common issues that can happen in this hobby and do what you can now to take preventative action, or at the very least, have the tools/supplies at the ready and deploy the solution at the first sign of trouble.

Also, it’s important to remember that there is rarely a quick fix for Dinos or any problem we encounter for that matter. Patience is key. Rarely does the problem take over instantly if it is algae or dinos, pests, etc (not talking about toxins, overdoses, equipment failure, all of which can create problems instantly) If it took a few months to get that way, it will probably take a few months or more to fix. Try a solution and stick with it for awhile before changing directions and trying something new. If you see progress, stick with it!

I remember my battle with Dinos. I started a second Tank way back after a year of success with my first tank. The problem was, I started everything to fight high nutrients before my nutrients were even high or even a problem. I started a large refugium, a GFO reactor, and I started using microbacter clean to try and skip the ugly phase. I wiped out any chance of biodiversity and was left with super unstable conditions.

The result? My ecosystem was not established enough, and there wasn’t enough good bacteria and large enough micro fauna population to combat anything really at that point, combined with zero nitrates and phosphates and not enough feeding, I had a Dino problem take hold.

I tried everything that I could think of, along with a deep research dive into all the research on dinos and forums of everyone else’s attempts until I found what worked. It was Dr Tim’s Dino program (see link at bottom of post and picture of instructions) which includes dosing “refresh” for two days during a two day blackout, then when my lights came back on I dosed waste away for the recommended amount of days, as well as following the schedule laid out for water changes. I also added a small UV canister filter- I couldn’t afford a high grade unit so I found a $100 9w UV canister filter and just took out all of the media trays/sponges.

SunSun Hw303B 370GPH Pro Canister Filter Kit with 9-watt UV Sterilizer
I also added pods/phyto. Like ALOT of pods. For a 80 gal system I added 4 jars of Eco Pids and 2 jars of 5280 pods to my refugium and to the DT directly with all of the pumps turned off and at night. Drop the pods in and let them sink for 30 minutes and find a home in the rocks and sand. In a few days you’ll see little white specks on your glass. If you look closely, you can see them running around on your glass eating algae. Don’t scrape the glass though! The phytoplankton doesn’t eat the dinos, but the pods will eat the phyto and the Dino’s! The phyto helps by adding a food source, which increases nutrients. It also helps your system speed up the process of balancing the eco system and outcompeting the Dino’s.

Dino’s are resilient but very easily die off or diminish when there is anything else, and I mean ANYTHING else that outcompetes the Dino’s for resources, namely biodiversity and micro fauna

****One caution, the “refresh” is no joke and will almost eradicate the problem on it’s own, and the waste away is to clean up the wreckage left behind by the refresh. When the lights come on, you will see the shriveled remains of the god awful dinos (very satisfying to see them die)

But... the refresh can be hard on your inverts in your CUC. I lost a few snails and crabs during that process, but my shrimps were fine.

However, compared to the livestock and coral I had lost to Dino poisoning or smothering/being choked out by the Dino’s, a few dead snails and crabs was an okay price to pay to solve this.

I started to rant there for a moment, but hopefully it helps. And I Hope it works out for you!

80 gallon Dinoflagellate Treatment Bundle - Dr.Tim's​

Are you ready to beat dinoflagellates? Arm yourself with the right tools to win, and say goodbye to the dinoflagellate scourge! Dr. Tim's treatment regimen, using the bacterial strains within Re-Fresh and Waste Away, forms an important part of the solution to dinoflagellates by creating less...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

-T

 

[Twillyg21]

No one wants to join?

bump...

 

[Twillyg21]

Love the votes! Especially the “bad dream” answer

let’s get some stories rolling!

 

[zalick]

I'd venture to say I battled it for longer than 99.999% of people. I was extremely opposed to dosing anything or using new equipment etc. I wanted to "restore" the balance in my tank what I thought was the "natural" way and not become dependent on something else.

I've had tanks since 98 and never had a dino outbreak before. I honestly didn't even know what dinos were until this outbreak and I thought it was just weird algae at first. My current tank was started 7 years ago with live rock from a previous system. I ran ULN aggressively and I think that's what gave dinos the foothold. But that's just anecdotal. For maybe 2 years or so I blew them off rocks, vacuumed the sand, and stopped water changes thinking raising nutrients would restore the balance. That failed. the dinos killed all my SPS and a bunch of LPS and most of my inverts. I pretty much gave up and let the tank go to absolute #$% thinking eventually algae would outcompete. I think the dinos reached an inch or two depth on the sand. I couldn't see in to my tank. This lasted 6 months and obviously didn't work. Miraculously my 75 or so heads of hammer continued to grow.

I went back to aggressive manual removal and began dosing flourish and stump remover. This kept my nutrients up and the dinos didn't go away but were held at bay.

Finally I decided to install a UV directly to my display tank, pump and return, and started dosing DinoX. 57watts for a 300g + 100g sump. The dino's were diminshed over night. two weeks later they were gone and have never come back.

I could have saved myself 2+ years of frustration had I just done that from the get go! (And not run an ULN system)

My dinos were coolia. Death to coolia.

 

[Azedenkae]

I just let them beat me. Manual removal until they eventually cleared up enough. We live in peace now. I accept they exist in the tank, they accept they get pulled out immediately if they overgrow.

 

[Twillyg21]

I'd venture to say I battled it for longer than 99.999% of people. I was extremely opposed to dosing anything or using new equipment etc. I wanted to "restore" the balance in my tank what I thought was the "natural" way and not become dependent on something else.

I've had tanks since 98 and never had a dino outbreak before. I honestly didn't even know what dinos were until this outbreak and I thought it was just weird algae at first. My current tank was started 7 years ago with live rock from a previous system. I ran ULN aggressively and I think that's what gave dinos the foothold. But that's just anecdotal. For maybe 2 years or so I blew them off rocks, vacuumed the sand, and stopped water changes thinking raising nutrients would restore the balance. That failed. the dinos killed all my SPS and a bunch of LPS and most of my inverts. I pretty much gave up and let the tank go to absolute #$% thinking eventually algae would outcompete. I think the dinos reached an inch or two depth on the sand. I couldn't see in to my tank. This lasted 6 months and obviously didn't work. Miraculously my 75 or so heads of hammer continued to grow.

I went back to aggressive manual removal and began dosing flourish and stump remover. This kept my nutrients up and the dinos didn't go away but were held at bay.

Finally I decided to install a UV directly to my display tank, pump and return, and started dosing DinoX. 57watts for a 300g + 100g sump. The dino's were diminshed over night. two weeks later they were gone and have never come back.

I could have saved myself 2+ years of frustration had I just done that from the get go! (And not run an ULN system)

My dinos were coolia. Death to coolia.

Death to coolia! thanks for sharing your story! It will help a lot of people!

 

[ChrisOFL]

I beat them through the use of bacteria. I already wrote a thread here about my experience. Would like to see if it works for others and how consistently it does or does not work.

 

[fryman]

I figured they were just a stage of "the uglies" that go away eventually if you keep up on maintenance. Patience, maybe?

I guess you can accelerate the process by outcompeting them with bacteria and/or phyto (live). Manually remove the dinos, add competing organisms. Rinse, repeat.

 

[lhendricks420]

I may be jumping the gun a lil bit here because I’m not entirely through with the dinos yet, but since my tank has gone from being totally COVERED and dinos literally dripping and flowing off of every surface in my tank to just like six strands still clinging to my gracilaria that I can turkey baste away in like two seconds I consider that a win lol.

I wanted to share because I am positive I know exactly what started them up in my tank...

I have a nice white Fluval 32.5 that I absolutely adore that I filled with some really fun shapes and forms of love rock from my LFS. I may be mocked for this now lol but I actually purposefully pulled out rocks that looked like they had a lot of stuff going on, algae, lil critters etc. (y‘all already know this led me to have aiptasia but I have no regrets since I covered the big ones in Aiptasia X and my peppermint shrimp Scotty is an assassin and knocked those suckers out on sight buuut thats another story lol)

Anywhas this live rock introduced tons of pods which were so cool to me, and also at the same time, an attractive fern like species of Calurpera that I thought was so nice I thought I’d let it grow, which was all well and good, until it started getting on the glass, I tried to break it off to remove it, and thennnn it took OVER!!

It was too long and growing too fast for my CUC, so I figured okay, lemme use API AlgaeFix (no shade towards API lol) and I dosed every three days as advised, and only treated for nine days. Algae was gone, cool!

However, the end of my dosing coincided with my weekly water tests, and my heart dropped when I saw my nitrates were now at 0 I knew from my reading books and posts here that was not something to be happy about, and I figured that the AlgaeFix must’ve been robbing the tank of nutrients to starve the algae, but in process also starved at my good lil bacteria and pods. I could already see there were so few on the glass when I checked.

I tried not to get too down, knew I wouldn’t use that product anymore, did my lil water change that was due, stirred up my lil sand surface because that’s what I do every time I change the water and kept it moving.

The next couple days, I started noticing some of those infamous brown snotty strands. I admit, I was in denial. At first I thought it was just the green algae still breaking down, but as the problem increased I knew what I had on my hands! :’(

I started to look here, and I know different things work for different tanks, but when I saw advice about dosing different things I just got too nervous. I worried that for me personally it might lead to more temporary solutions with effects that might harm my happy army of snails and shrimp (Scotty and Scarlet) and didn‘t know how my two trooper PJ Cardinals (Amneris and Dorado) would react.

So, I turned to my good old book Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies by Gregory Skomal, a marine biologist and tank enthusiast, aka my sensei which I read many times lol and he was like,
1.) Remove manually
2.) Turn off skimmer (which scared me but I did it!)
3.) Reduce circulation
4.) Use chemical means if you wanna (and I held my breath and decided to skip this one lol)

I had peeped some of these in other posts, with people’s success with the natural ‘dirty’ method and between the two thought this was the best route..So, this is what I did!

I chose to check my params more frequently since the skimmer off made me nervous, and I turned off my one extra power head in the corner, but I was pleased to see Nitrites and Ammonia were at 0 (which had been normal and steady for me for weeks since I finished cycling) and pH was hanging steady. I truly feel like my live rock played a part in holding this down.

I knew I made the crew mad when I was blasting and netting the Dinos away but I could see how happy they were when the tank was clean, even temporarily for the rest of the day.

I manually removed as much as I could stand after coming home from work, and one the weekends I would do it multiple times a day. It was exhausting (mentally more than physically tbh lol)

It was probably about 15 days before I really started to see a difference. I turned my skimmer on and it was a lil boom after that, but I was persistent and finally started to see them go down. Like the OP I added additional pods and phyto and saw my OG population growing as well, which gave me hope to keep fighting!!!

It has probably been about 30 days judging from my journal entries, and like I said, the battle is virtually won!
I have seen coralline algae of all colors popping up in the meantime and the Gracilaria I introduced has been growing like a weed (which is great to me!)

In the end I came to realize, yes, they were always in my tank from the jump, the pods I had kept them in check and virtually undetectable, then I killed the pods via chemical means
and then as part of my solution, let their population grow!

My advice as one newbie to any other (if I’m allowed to give it so early in the hobby haha) would be to be patient and I totally agree with keeping up biodiversity and all the valuable lil critters. I sincerely believe to the fullest that if I hadnt accidentally killed them with the AlgaeFix I wouldn’t have had it so bad like I did. I’m not so bold as to say I would never have it lol. But when their population was near zero I went an introduced more spores or whatever with my lil sand stir, and there werent enough to gobble it up for me, so BOOM off it went!


I am lowkey an abnormally patient person which is probably why I like this hobby so much already only something like 12 weeks in lolol but I hope what I have done will keep my tank going for a long long time

And sorry for the essay lol but I read other peoples long posts on here so hopefully it’s helpful to someone and not too over the top

 

[DrMMI]

I was dealing with dinos for almost 8 months before I finally had success. I had/have large cell amphidium. What eventually worked for me was 3 weeks in a row of elegant corals dino method in combination with adding a bunch of rock and sand from an 8 year old reef that was being broken down. I was dino free for about 6 months before I stupidly did 30% water changes every day for a week straight to get my nitrates from over 100ppm down to 10pm. Should have just left the nitrates alone since my coral and anemones never looked better. I was just worried about my inverts.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

I got ostreos from high nutrients. No3 was over 60 and po4 was over 2.0. It shot up so fast after adding my moray i was completely blindsided.

My assumption is many of the beneficial bacteria and microfauna died out during this period and dinos thrived

First i read about everyone saying not to do water changes and everything else so i left it and tried the elegance corals method. It hurt them but they thrived again as soon as i stopped.

Since i knew my cause was cause of high nutrients which was the opposite of most experiences i then tried the opposite and added gfo, a refugium, and started doing more water changes.

I got my nutrient levels back in check and I was finally starting to see progress. But it got to a point where they were still present and just kinda there, not spreading or receeding. This is when i went the dr tims route and finally started seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. After adding every dr tims product weekly while alternating products every few days and phytoplankton daily for about 4-6 weeks i no longer had any in the display.

6months from the first outbreak i just now have some in my refugium, still working to get them out but its not the plague levels i was dealing with prior so im happy with the progress.

My biggest discoveries are definitely add as much bacteria to compete as possble. I strongly believe its more of a bacterial problem then a nutrient problems. But you need good nutrient levels to support healthy bacteria and micro fauna.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT USE NO4POX OR AMINO ACIDS! I saw massive increases in population after feeding aminos or dosing nopox which i found out shortly after also has aminos. Stuffs like steroids to dinos, atleast to ostreopsis

 

[Twillyg21]

These posts are great! Keep em’ coming!