“Rare” torches are a con

Sean Clark

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Last chance to get in on these NFTs... Don't miss out.
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REEFTIDE
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StoneyK

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dont buy one then
Thats not the point at all. I wasnt asking your opinion if i should buy some over priced torch. No offense but i dont need your help to make an easy decision.
It was to open a discussion on something i found to be a little shocking, ya know a discussion? Like grown adults do sometimes? Pros cons etc etc…???? Hear some other opinions maybe learn a little and refine my own opinion if i come across some applicable data? Or vise versa?
If your selling a peoduct and you believe in its calue and worth you should have no problem articulating why and how that price is fair.
Business classes? So you think people are unethical for buying a product low and selling high to people willing to pay a higher price for the product sold? I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint here because it seems that you keep on going the ethics route. There is nothing unethical about it, I do not disagree with all of your points but saying something is unethical is not true.

Money isn't an issue for you, great. It seems to me perceived value is your issue and you think that makes the coral seller the problem.

This topic comes and goes it seems like on a monthly basis, I'll summarize it for you: Don't like the price then don't buy it, that simple.



Thank you!
yes i do think it is unethical to buy something low, lie about its value lie about its rarity and sell it for many many many times what they paid for it by misrepresenting its value. Like i said…. Snake oil salesmen.
Im all about making a fair profit and i think there is absolutely such a thing. Like i said happy medium NOT price gouging.
What your taking about a coral being healthy and living has nothing to do with lineage. Its all about how it was cared for… thats quality of care not genetics. If you lower your quality of care… that coral WILL change an maybe even die… just because someone else had success doesnt mean a whole lot in your tank.

I do very much agree it helps to buy healthy animals but im not sure im gonna bite on the whole it looks good in his tank so it will look good in mine theory. Especially when 75% of how good it looks online is because of clever photography not reality.
And fyi i only mentioned the money thing because that seems to be the first place everyone goes…. Ohhh they cant afford it so theyre mad…
 
AS

Hydrored

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Thats not the point at all. I wasnt asking your opinion if i should buy some over priced torch. No offense but i dont need your help to make an easy decision.
It was to open a discussion on something i found to be a little shocking, ya know a discussion? Like grown adults do sometimes? Pros cons etc etc…???? Hear some other opinions maybe learn a little and refine my own opinion if i come across some applicable data? Or vise versa?
If your selling a peoduct and you believe in its calue and worth you should have no problem articulating why and how that price is fair.

yes i do think it is unethical to buy something low, lie about its value lie about its rarity and sell it for many many many times what they paid for it by misrepresenting its value. Like i said…. Snake oil salesmen.
Im all about making a fair profit and i think there is absolutely such a thing. Like i said happy medium NOT price gouging.
What your taking about a coral being healthy and living has nothing to do with lineage. Its all about how it was cared for… thats quality of care not genetics. If you lower your quality of care… that coral WILL change an maybe even die… just because someone else had success doesnt mean a whole lot in your tank.

I do very much agree it helps to buy healthy animals but im not sure im gonna bite on the whole it looks good in his tank so it will look good in mine theory. Especially when 75% of how good it looks online is because of clever photography not reality.
And fyi i only mentioned the money thing because that seems to be the first place everyone goes…. Ohhh they cant afford it so theyre mad…
How do you feel about Amazon and the amount of sellers there flipping goods from China with 1000% markup? Do you shop at Amazon? There are many people you may personally know making a lot off cash off this.

Well actually, you are right, I prefer not to have a discussion with one on these topics- It’s easier for me to say that’s unethical and I can”t believe Amazon would make money off of people?!

Thank you for reminding me that I actually don’t care to hear people cry about pricing and who gripe on a public forum about it.

Maybe you should try importing coral and selling them at cost and helping members out? Or would that take an investment and work?
 
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rtparty

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This is pretty simple. Rare would mean I can't easily find it at any price. I can find any torch variant I want in less than 5 minutes of searching. God, NY Knicks, Holy Grail, you name it. I can find and buy ANY of them with no issues. Therefore, they aren't rare.
 

madlos123

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Now i think about the older indo strains are not as common due to the gold and hype names getting all the highlights. The indo green and purple combinations and even aussie golds are not as common.
 
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Sean Clark

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This is pretty simple. Rare would mean I can't easily find it at any price. I can find any torch variant I want in less than 5 minutes of searching. God, NY Knicks, Holy Grail, you name it. I can find and buy ANY of them with no issues. Therefore, they aren't rare.
ap7306010161_custom-915b61b3f136d185eaefb86698a87edcd9536520.jpg
 

DopamineKata

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Hard to run a business if you can't move a product.. if people are buying them at the asking price that is justifiying it, rare or not.

I've head this conversation with people many times. People will say "x isn't worth the price it's a giant ripoff" but literally everything for sale is worth exactly as much as people are willing to pay for it. Costing more than a given individual is willing to pay for it doesn't matter, as long as enough people are.
 
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StoneyK

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How do you feel about Amazon and the amount of sellers there flipping goods from China with 1000% markup? Do you shop at Amazon? There are many people you may personally know making a lot off cash off this.

Well actually, you are right, I prefer not to have a discussion with one on these topics- It’s easier for me to say that’s unethical and I can”t believe Amazon would make money off of people?!

Thank you for reminding me that I actually don’t care to hear people cry about pricing and who gripe on a public forum about it.

Maybe you should try importing coral and selling them at cost and helping members out? Or would that take an investment and work?
Once again….
Theres nothing wrong with a healthy fair profit….
Using deception lies and price gouging to rip people off IS wrong.
 

stephj03

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This isn't a serious indictment on "rareity" if NKY, hellfire and fresh imports are the "rare" ones who's prices are under scrutiny.

ASD Holy Grail
+
CC 24K Holy Grail

Are in fact rare and different in a significant way from freshly imported HGs. Very recently a few came in that are up in the cheap seats of the same ballpark but they are a step down.

The way you know is that they are called "ASD-type".

There's a second tier that includes:
TSA HG, WWC and more recently TCK Master that are Pre-ban as well as true Todd's.
 
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stephj03

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There's plenty of very nice torches for very reasonable prices.

The hobby got big, and lux oriented since my first go round.

That has created a lot more hobbyists that want to spend more money on tanks and coral.

As well as more window shoppers that want to get upset about lux oriented hobbyists.

If $40 torches is what everyone wanted, that's what vendors would sell.

That means
 
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stephj03

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A serious discussion on "rare" without mention of the ban except to say that fresh imports are as stable as pre-ban?

Yeah, real serious discussion going on here hahaha.

The point has been made. Go see a real ASD/CC 24k and then try to find one. Even one without linneage......

And then find one with....
 

flashsmith

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Try to find a bottle of Pappy 15 at MSRP. That's something you'll never see.. what I find more bothersome in this hobby is other hobbyists selling at "market" prices like they are running a legit business.Just like flipping whiskey. Those who do it for money couldn't tell the difference between fireball and an actual real bourbon.. I don't even bother messing with swaps or dealing with any local reefers because they think they are WWC and want top dollar for everything.
 

Sean Clark

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Try to find a bottle of Pappy 15 at MSRP. That's something you'll never see.. what I find more bothersome in this hobby is other hobbyists selling at "market" prices like they are running a legit business.Just like flipping whiskey. Those who do it for money couldn't tell the difference between fireball and an actual real bourbon.. I don't even bother messing with swaps or dealing with any local reefers because they think they are WWC and want top dollar for everything.
Finally someone that speaks my language.
 
Tidal Gardens

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Don't really understand how they can be organically so expensive while also constantly being in stock everywhere and the prices seem made up. What is presumably the same brood stock across multiple sites sells frags for $300, $500, $1000, $3000? Who's buying this and not checking prices on other sites? Is it possible they list some specific strains at silly prices to attract eyes to their sites so they can just sell $40 candy canes and $10 star polyps?
 

brmc1985

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Now this is the way it is. Rare isn't right. People are willing to pay the high prices.... kind of like people selling toilet paper in 2020 during the beginning of the covid stuff... they were selling to for like 20 and 30 times what it cost.... because people paid for it.... clearly they don't know the 3 sea shell method lol
This guy Reddits
 
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DopamineKata

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Don't really understand how they can be organically so expensive while also constantly being in stock everywhere and the prices seem made up. What is presumably the same brood stock across multiple sites sells frags for $300, $500, $1000, $3000? Who's buying this and not checking prices on other sites? Is it possible they list some specific strains at silly prices to attract eyes to their sites so they can just sell $40 candy canes and $10 star polyps?

Cost is a matter of perspective. They cost as much as they do because there's enough people what want them that are able to afford them at that price. When sales taper off, the prices will drop. I wouldn't bat an eye at a $300 - $500 coral, or even a $1k if i really liked it. I'm not going to drop that kind of money any time soon on coral, but that's more of a skill thing. I don't mind spending it, I do mind wasting it by killing the coral. I'm looking forward to reaching the point where I can buy a Nexus Burst Bubble Tip Anemone with confidence.
 

Sean Clark

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Cost is a matter of perspective. They cost as much as they do because there's enough people what want them that are able to afford them at that price. When sales taper off, the prices will drop. I wouldn't bat an eye at a $300 - $500 coral, or even a $1k if i really liked it. I'm not going to drop that kind of money any time soon on coral, but that's more of a skill thing. I don't mind spending it, I do mind wasting it by killing the coral. I'm looking forward to reaching the point where I can buy a Nexus Burst Bubble Tip Anemone with confidence.
All I want is my Glitter Bomb... then I would be happy. Until the next thing came along.
 

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