★ 110 Gallon (In-Wall Office Dream SPS Reef Tank) ★ PROJECT GENESIS [Total Automation, DIY & More ]★

Discussion in 'Member Tanks' started by WallyB, May 24, 2018.

  1. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks. It does seem complicated. More to figure it out, but simply (IF THIS do THAT) Logic. It could be done all in a Apex, but I like Standalone.

    BTW. I just tested with Float Sensors VS Calibration.
    To my surprise the Float Sensors are DEAD ON ACCURATE (If they don't stick from Salt Creep or whatever)

    I still need the pump calibration to only get an accurate DESIRED Water Volume, on the First Drain Pump.
    Then with Float sensors, every thing lines up on Subsequent TANKS to a 100% Perfect Water change.

    And the Calibrated Volumes will actually be the Safety Check ( THINGS are REVERSED compared to what I thought).
    What I mean is (If sensor doesn't hit, and I'm going over-TOO-MUCH on the Expected 1 Gallon Water change, then something is wrong)

    ALMOST DONE. GOING to Install on the Tanks and do a few tests.
     
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  2. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Water Changer ((( ** MIND-BOGGLING Observation )) TESTING [Float-Sensor] VS [Pump Calibration] ACCURACY

    I don't think anyone cares about this....but I will post this result For Curiosity, and if you ever use one of the $2 Float Switches.

    I wrote the PROGRAMMING to include the Float Sensors, and wasn't sure what would be more accurate for a Water Change.

    -> The Pump Calibrations (Water Change by Volume)
    -> Or a Properly Placed Float switch

    2019-05-28_FloatSensorAccuracy.jpg

    I kept testing and testing, to see if WHAT I was observing was possible. Seemed unreal.
    Then I wrote extra Programming to DEBUG, and watch timing.

    THE FLOAT would TRIGGER AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME (as the Pump Calibration).
    EXACTLY!!!, and I am timing at milli seconds. I couldn't believe it!!

    (It was true, since if I fooled around and drained or added extra water, or stuck my finger on the Float and Jammed it, things would go off track)

    Proves these KAMOER Pumps (which are not stepping motors like the Neptune DOS is) are Darn Accurate (when Calibrated).
    AND PROVES these Cheap Float Switches are ACCURATE TOO!!

    It could be the Small Container, and things will change in a Larger Sump.
    However it still will be a DOUBLE Perfect Water change. (IF I LINE UP Float Sensor with the ATO Sensor)

    I'll will add a Piece of Programming to Track any slip (which may happen over months if not years):
    ---> It will probably be the pumps that drift as they wear over time.
    ---> Or the Float switch will get gummed up and stick.

    Who knows.

    But I have the Highest confidence this Water Changer will work (without any worries on The Water Changer itself).

    Of course Programming will be added, for Accidents, Other Tank System Component Failures, etc.
     
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  3. NY_Caveman

    NY_Caveman "listen to the colour of your dreams” R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Hospitality Award

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    That is pretty amazing they were both dead on, LOL

     
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  4. Rakie

    Rakie POSSIBLY BANNED R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Focus on perfecting fish QT until you randomly realize all your frags are colonies lol!
     
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  5. tenurepro

    tenurepro Well-Known Member Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Try a higher volume of water Wally. Also, you may want a graduated cylinder to measure water volume more accurately
     
  6. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    For calibration I did use a 20ml graduated cylinder, that is why things came out so accurate.

    Next Higher volume will be test in tanks.
    The 110 Gallon tank won't be that much water since it drains from a small section of sump where return is. 6"x4" surface area.

    The 35 gallon frag tank will full surface area drain 36"x18" so I expect that to pickup a difference between calibration and sensor.

    Can't wait to try next tests.
     
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  7. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Update on FIREFISH (New Idea) after some Consideration (Tank Flow)

    I posted a question on the Fish Forum, about Flow and Firefish. My CONCERN was these fish appear to need calm waters.
    Answer confirmed my Worry.
    My LPS Tank is very low flow, and the Helfrichi Firefish is Happy.

    The SPS tank is very Aggressive flow, and I remember I had a Firefish once. HE DISSISAPEAR after PUTTING HIM in. NEVER SAW HIM for over a year.
    One day after tearing apart tank and removing rocks to upgrade the Tank, I found him still alive. He lived in seclusion for over a year.

    I DON'T WANT that to happen again.

    So here the plan. They Still goes into the SPS tank for Nutrients and Bioload.....

    2019-05-28_FireFishSPSTankSumpRefuge.jpg

    I removed the ACIENT Dirty Sand bed from Refuge and Rinsed it Clean. Dug out some Aged Scrap Live rock. (Threw in a snail, 1 blue legged hermit, and a Small Tuxedo Urchin)
    IT WILL BE a 10 Gallon (low flow) , trickle-filled Tank (100 Gal/hr),
    (INTAKE: Sump-Skimmer Section, OUTPUT: Sump-Return Pump Section)

    10 x 151/2" , 16" HIGH. (They barely swim-horizonal in the 10Gal QT....so the extra height is perfect for their vertical swim style)
    with a 140 Gallon Filtration System Attached.


    VERY Safely sealed, since this is where my Mandarin Jumped out, and went into Return Section AND GOT KILLED in Return Pump (Had no guard at time)!!



    Encrust some Cyphastrea on the rocks....
    ....maybe I can also start a nice Zoa Garden in there too!!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  8. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Plastic Coated/Sealed Magnets (ARRIVED) WATER CHANGER INSTALL TIME (on Real TANKS)

    I ordered these a couple weeks ago....and they just arrived today.

    2019-05-28_PlasticMagnets.jpg

    These babies are RARE EARTH Strong. Hard to pull apart, and on the table they kept joining together (if placed to close together).

    As you can see in my Float Sensor, One of the Metal Magnet Rusted (even though I sealed it in silicone...MUST HAVE not been perfect seal)

    These plastic coated ones will Last a lifetime, and not corrode.

    -> PURPOSE is to ensure the INTAKE Hoses are kept underwater for Proper Water changes.
    -> Also for proper depth placement (another Safety Check, to limit the Water Change amount to the Set UNIT Volume)
     
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  9. Janci

    Janci Staghorns will prevail R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Hospitality Award

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    Do these coated magnets also come in bigger size?
    To hold firmly onto 15mm (5/8") glass?

    I like this coated version. I avoid magnets as much as possible, but we cannot live without them.
     
  10. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Any size you want.
    The Blue ones I got... do 3/4" with light load like my tubing.
    The black ones I got, will do 3/4" with some weight.

    YOU CAN MIX. To save money, and also get more grip.
    I will be doing Blue-Small on inside of tank and Black-Larger on Outside (Rather than two smaller blues)

    Pick any size you want right here..... (They have ones that will hold Elephants :) ) but not all plastic coated.
    www.kjmagnetics.com
     
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  11. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    WATER CHANGER UPDATE ( FINAL Test DEMO ) Water Reservoir ( Ready / Water Tested)

    It's been a while.....Been Super Busy, on many fronts.

    Finally Finished the TankMate Water ChangerTesting after Extensive Programming Efforts (to make things Perfect and Informative)

    VIDEO is uploading to YOUtube, however I've Prepared the 65G Water Reservoir, and have about 60 Gallons of Ready Made Water.


    2019-06-12_TankMateWaterReservoir.jpg

    Interesting to note the Parameter of Tropic Marin Pro Salt. (The Low Potassium Caught my Attention....I believe this is good, since I heard some Salts have too high)
    Otherwise, all Parameters are ideal for my SPS Tank which will get the New Water.


    Stay Tuned.....Video will be here in a few hours...

    Also will update things on QT(s). Since I got the two Fire Fish, a Copper Band Butterfly, and QT3 has a pair of Picasso Clowns.
    I may put the Clowns in Sump Refuge, CB goes into my LPS Tank for Apatasia, and the Fire Fish will most likely go into the SPS Tank.


    2019-06-12_TankMateWaterResParameters.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  12. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Tank Mate MEGA (Water Changer) TEST LAB Full Running Demo VIDEO

    Sorry, for using the same SOUNDTRACK, but I found this NON-COPYRIGHT track that works for anything.

    No time to find a better soundtrack.

    THIS IS IT...... (A 250 ml Demo Run)

    I won't bother Explaining....But notice the TOP LED PROGRESS Status Indicator (RED is EMPTY Side progress, Blue is Fill side Progress)

    Also I do a insert Video showing the LCD DISPLAY so you can see that too.



    Next is install (more testing), and Activating the Maintenance Minder Code.
     
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  13. Janci

    Janci Staghorns will prevail R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Hospitality Award

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    Genius!
    Soon you can come up with your own Alk, Ca, Mg, NO3, PO4 monitor...
     
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  14. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks Janci.

    Funny you should mention a Auto Water Tester of some sort. I've have actually been thinking about it after the Neptune Systems Trident Came out.
    If I finish the Water Changer, I really don't have much more Left to do for Automation.

    Problem is I was never good at Chemistry....My Daughter is (but only entering Grade 11).
    Maybe in a few years, when she does post high school education.

    Of course, I can't wait that long. So time to start reading her text books. Nahh, I will never get good at Chemistry. Too OLD.

    Been also thinking of Maybe something Simpler. An Automatic Salfert Test Kit Machine.

    Or even hack a Hanna Tester Egg and automate it (Alk should be easy)

    ** SOMETHING that I can do a AUTO PUSH button Test, not 4 times a day (Sucking up Regents) ***


    PLAN B:
    (Been thinking about reverse engineering a Trident to save time...And Make A BETTER STANDALONE Unit).
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  15. Janci

    Janci Staghorns will prevail R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Hospitality Award

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    In the end an auto alkalinity tester cannot be that difficult. The system of adding reagent till a certain pH is obtained is pretty simple.
    Now that the reagent is freely available, I see 2 problems:
    - get the accuracy right... need for proper probes, dosing pumps.
    - how to empty the vial after testing and have it clean enough for a second test without spilling too much water.
     
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  16. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Sounds like a challenge I will attempt to solve.
    I have 4 kamoer micro dosing pumps on the way from china. I also have a few stepper motors with gears etc. (Never throw out your of cd or Dvd players, or old bubble jet printers. Great free stepper motors, gears, belts, etc inside)

    Not joking about doing this in next project. At least Alk.
    Alk for me may be enough as a basic single reference test. Mag and Calc should line up.

    I dose ESV two part which takes care of Mag and Calcium based on equal ALK dosing (assuming my system is stable/Balanced and it may be Moreso with auto water changes). Corals generally consume all 3 in balanced proportions.

    Even Hanna Reagent as a starting point for titrated liquid darkness test.
    I may not even need as much as a human eye test since electronic sensor should be more sensitive and accurate). I like titration over PH probe method since probes need constant calibration and wear out.

    First things, First. The water changer and figure offset dosing out with 3 Daisy chained water changes)....can't wait to get it running Live.

    BTW. I stopped all aminos, coral foods about a week ago. No more junk food. That is what the extra fish will do for the SPS tank. Natural Nutrients (poop) and good clean water import, followed by daily export thru the tank chain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  17. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    HONEST VIEW (Before Water Changer) Both TANK FTS

    Let's just say both tanks haven't done that great lately.
    So here is a reference photo before Water Changer is installed.

    Basically my goal is to SHOW a ROUGH STARING POINT.

    The Kitchen LPS (90GAL) Tank is slowly recoverying after the ALK OVERDOSE, and I've prune away most of the killed Corals (Leaving Trumpet since they will recover over time)

    2019-06-13-KITCHENtank-BeforeTankMateMEGA.jpg


    The Basement (110G) SPS Tank has lost a few Sensitive Frags, however the Vetrans have continued to hang in there.
    Fish have more color than Corals (except for the RR Papicho [top Left] which Amazes me)

    2019-06-13-SPSTank-BeforeTankMateMega.jpg

    FRAG TANK is Empty, since I haven't maintained it, but it's mature and ready for stock.

    Onward. With Hope!!
     
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  18. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    TANK MATE Mega (Water Changer) ** FAILSAFE Logic ** COMPLETED

    I exhausted, but ELATED that things are finished!!

    I was going to install the Water Changer on the Tank and do some Testing to complete the LOGIC.
    However, I made a SMARTER choice to continue working on my Desk with my LAB Setup. (Comfortable, easy to test/code/re-test Dozens of times)

    I NAILED the FAILSAFE Logic (beyond my original Plans). Has to be Perfect (This is 3 Tanks)
    It will be PERFECT. I'm sure! (since I ran every possible failure scenario, and the Controller Logic handled it)

    FIRST THINGS FIRST (HOSES/Float-Sensors). The Install can't have them falling out, or NOT DEEP ENOUGH to get all the water out.

    These are the ADJUSTABLE (Magnetic) Floats and HOSE Holders

    2019-06-16_TankMateMegaMagneticSensors.jpg

    THIS IS A BRIEF description of all the FAILSAFE LOGIC:

    I learned from Testing that it makes sense to STOP THE FILLS at the ATO Controller Level. (and not by Perfect Volumes)

    - My Tunze ATO's have failed (overfilled, under filled)
    - Sometimes I do Manual Water Changes, or Sump Adjustments and Water isn't at ATO Level
    - What if the Return Pump Fails (at Tank Drains into Sump)....Means it's over filled.
    - What if something goes wrong during the Water change (Highly Unlikely, but it could happen)....Something Falls in, Power Failure, etc


    I SOLVED ALL ABOVE using the FLOAT SENSORs:

    Logic is this: (sorry if this is not clear...I may film a demo of all the Failure Scenarios, but maybe too Boring)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LOGIC PART 1: (Condition to Start Water Change)
    - Water Changer Won't Start (Unless All 3 Tanks SUMPS Float Sensors) are RAISED (and of COURSE, NEW Water Reservoir has Water)

    (Raised means they are AT ATO Top Up Water Level, or Below Water Line for some unknown reason that I can't detect...Could be tiny bit...or a lot)

    LOGIC PART 2a: (Which Water Change Logic [BY Volume or BY Sensors] )
    -----------> But what if Floats are Raised (Because of some kind of BIG Sump Overfill)
    ---------------------> I DECTECT (an Overfill Condition), by EXPECTING the Float Sensor to DROP (during each Drain)
    ---------------------> If the Sensor doesn't DROP (I have to continue the Water Change...but I continue by VOLUME Change only, not by Float Switch Detect)

    LOGIC PART 2b: (Which Water Change Logic [Volume or Sensors] )
    However if the Sensor Drops (during First Part of Drain), then I know Water Was AT/or CLOSE to ATO Level (so I fill by Float Sensor with Confidence)


    LOGIC PART 2c: (What is Float Sensor for FILL is STUCK )
    I know the Float Sensor Dropped during Drain (so as Safety I won't let the Fill go beyond a certain Period of Time, much Greater that Expected Volume Fill)


    LOGIC PART 3: (Accuracy/Failures/Alerts )

    I track the timing of when Volume Change should end.....And when it Actually ENDs by Float Sensor (and display the difference in time)

    - Zero Difference: (Means Dead-On Water Change) Sensor VS Time
    - Small Difference: (Means Drift in Pump Calibration) Not the End of the World
    - Large Difference: (FAILURE) ** Alert, Email, and No More Water Changes (but complete the current one, to ensure Sump isn't under filled)

    I ALSO track the timing of the Float Sensor Drops...Which gives me a BlackBox Understanding of Water Levels in Sumps.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TOMORROW I'll run the hoses, and INSTALL The Water changer.

    My confidence it Extremely High it will work (after Calibrating the Float Sensors, and the Pumps...I wrote code for that too)

    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    OH.. and :) :) HAPPY FATHER'S DAY :):) (to any Dad's reading this)
    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019 at 3:51 AM
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  19. tenurepro

    tenurepro Well-Known Member Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Happy fathers Day Wally - good luck with the project, can’t wait to see it in action!
     
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  20. WallyB

    WallyB Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    ** I Feel Lost....No More Water changes **

    TANK MATE Mega (Water Changer) INSTALLED & RUNNING

    2019-06-20_TankMateMega-Installed.jpg

    It works Perfectly as designed....(Dial up Water changes, or Auto Scheduled Daily)

    It's a weird Feeling. No more Water changes for 3 TANKS (in an Instant)....


    Not even making New Salt Water since I have 2 Months in the Reservoir.

    Now, I'm just left with Water Testing......And that I will do, to see what the impact is of Daisy Changing all 3 tanks.


    ONWARD...
     
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