0 Phosphates But Signs Of It.

[Reeftang]

I have something similar going on that might help, my tank is just over 3mos old though. I had green "felt" like algae on my rock. Now in some areas it looks to be hair algae but the other areas it's going away. The pic of the mostly white rock was covered like the other one and now glows in the moonlight for some reason?
I'm a newbie so I'm not sure what all this means, just trying to offer up some info that might help the experienced folks help you out. [emoji5]

~Jason

My params 11/16
Sg: 1.024
Ph: 8.3
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
PO4: .00
KH: 8.4dkh
CA: 430
Mg: 1500

Edit: mine looked exactly like yours for almost 2 weeks before mine started getting hair and the other disappearing.

Looks like a form of Dino.

 

[Rakie]

Looks like a form of dino.

Doesn't have anything to do with what he said though. it's not possible to have zero phosphates unless you have a tank with zero life in it. If you ever put in food, like within the last x years, you have phosphates. it's just undetectable and being taken up by algae while the amount is merely traces -- you may be able to test down to 0.01, but phosphate can exist down to 0.0001 or lower.

 

[MnFish1]

What baffles my mind is that people are STILL lead to believe that phosphates are bad.

Phosphates are good. They are necessary for life to happen. You WANT phosphates. Numerous people have even said dosing phosphates strengthens the system overall, and allows other things to outcompete algae (That's right, in my experience, dosing phosphates stops algae growth).

Algae doesn't need phosphate to grow -- Lack of phosphate allows algae to take over.

It's really time for us to get away from the dark ages of reefing....

Can you please give a range up to which 'phosphates are good' (i.e. at some level they are bad). And the competition depends on what is in the system to compete with the algae. I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement like this - without explanation. In other words - If you take 2 aquariums - with saltwater - and a couple damsels - are you saying that more algae will grow with 0.001 ppm PO4 than with 10 ppm phosphate - if the nitrate were the same in both tanks?

 

[Rakie]

Can you please give a range up to which 'phosphates are good' (i.e. at some level they are bad).

I have not found a point in which they are bad.

Richard Ross: Whats up with Phosphates? Macna 2014. 2:36 in is what I'm trying to get here.

And the competition depends on what is in the system to compete with the algae. I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement like this - without explanation. In other words - If you take 2 aquariums - with saltwater - and a couple damsels - are you saying that more algae will grow with 0.001 ppm PO4 than with 10 ppm phosphate - if the nitrate were the same in both tanks?

Not exactly. I'm saying this;

And the competition depends on what is in the system to compete with the algae.

With the caveat that we have no clue what makes this change. Some people DO get wild algae with any and all nutrients, others have zero problems until they hit undetectable no3/po4 (Like me). And that it's foolish to discredit anything that cuts against the grain simply because it's different. What I did say, is that more people have noted phosphate introduction allows some organisms to out compete algae. I suppose I should have reinforced this statement by saying this was specifically useful for people who have undetectable nutrients, and get algae problems. Such as, again, myself.

I had run down to undetectable phosphates, and had corals begin the lose color. Then I started getting some algae. Now at this point, I was dosing nitrates and not having success turning around my colors which had begun to fade. My nitrates were already above 25, but I had no algae issues until my po4 bottomed out. After asking, talking, reading, etc etc... I decided i'm going to dose phosphates. I don't care what people say, it's counter intuitive to *NOT* dose phosphates.

Dosed phos, GHA stopped, color came back.

In a thread here, titled "SPS high nutrient myth?" the introductory post talks about nitrates and phosphates being the devil, and then you're pointed at a tank from Sanjay, where Sanjay himself said "After Watching Sanjay talk about his 500 gallon reef tank and how he maintains his 50+ppm nitrates and 0.4 phosphates with little to no algae I was left speechless."

So if you have high nutrients and have issues with algae, dumping in more isn't going to help. If you have algae but zero phosphates, po4 may help you.

I've seen a trend of people not being afraid of dosing phosphates. And there's also a trend of those people having a reduction of algae. Exactly how or why this is, is unknown. But it's a trend that can be seen none the less.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Algae doesn't need phosphate to grow -- Lack of phosphate allows algae to take over.

I think you carried that to an illogical extreme.

Obviously algae needs a source of phosphate, and low enough values will typically stop it from growing while adequately high values will allow it to grow.

Of course, the "low enough" phosphate may, in some cases, be low enough to also harm organisms you want to thrive, and when phosphate is high, algae might be limited by other needed nutrients (nitrogen, trace elements, etc.) or factors (light, space, etc.)

 

[Reeftang]

I have not found a point in which they are bad.

Richard Ross: Whats up with Phosphates? Macna 2014. 2:36 in is what I'm trying to get here.




Not exactly. I'm saying this;


With the caveat that we have no clue what makes this change. Some people DO get wild algae with any and all nutrients, others have zero problems until they hit undetectable no3/po4 (Like me). And that it's foolish to discredit anything that cuts against the grain simply because it's different. What I did say, is that more people have noted phosphate introduction allows some organisms to out compete algae. I suppose I should have reinforced this statement by saying this was specifically useful for people who have undetectable nutrients, and get algae problems. Such as, again, myself.

I had run down to undetectable phosphates, and had corals begin the lose color. Then I started getting some algae. Now at this point, I was dosing nitrates and not having success turning around my colors which had begun to fade. My nitrates were already above 25, but I had no algae issues until my po4 bottomed out. After asking, talking, reading, etc etc... I decided i'm going to dose phosphates. I don't care what people say, it's counter intuitive to *NOT* dose phosphates.

Dosed phos, GHA stopped, color came back.

In a thread here, titled "SPS high nutrient myth?" the introductory post talks about nitrates and phosphates being the devil, and then you're pointed at a tank from Sanjay, where Sanjay himself said "After Watching Sanjay talk about his 500 gallon reef tank and how he maintains his 50+ppm nitrates and 0.4 phosphates with little to no algae I was left speechless."

So if you have high nutrients and have issues with algae, dumping in more isn't going to help. If you have algae but zero phosphates, po4 may help you.

I've seen a trend of people not being afraid of dosing phosphates. And there's also a trend of those people having a reduction of algae. Exactly how or why this is, is unknown. But it's a trend that can be seen none the less.

Wow my head is spinning.

 

[Reeftang]

I think you carried that to an illogical extreme.

Obviously algae needs a source of phosphate, and low enough values will typically stop it from growing while adequately high values will allow it to grow.

Of course, the "low enough" phosphate may, in some cases, be low enough to also harm organisms you want to thrive, and when phosphate is high, algae might be limited by other needed nutrients (nitrogen, trace elements, etc.) or factors (light, space, etc.)

So how does one know where they stand if undetectable?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So how does one know where they stand if undetectable?

You don't. That doesn't make phosphate not "needed". No organism can live without some source of phosphate.

 

[Reeftang]

You don't. That doesn't make phosphate not "needed". No organism can live without some source of phosphate.

That part I understand, but for example my rock that is green in color and I think it's holding back good Corline from populating. how do I know what it's from if I can't test for phosphates?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That part I understand, but for example my rock that is green in color and I think it's holding back good Corline from populating. how do I know what it's from if I can't test for phosphates?

That is the mistake people make. Algae is never caused by just one thing being high, such as phosphate.

You need sufficient availability of ALL of N, P, many trace elements (such as iron), light, space, freedom from herbivores, etc.. If any of those are lacking, the algae cannot grow, but as long as each one is sufficiently available, having a lot more of any particular one is not generally going to make algae appreciably worse.

Reducing nutrients is not always the best way to deal with algae.

 

[Rakie]

I think you carried that to an illogical extreme.

Poorly phrased, I meant algae could thrive while nutrients are undetectable.

 

[Reeftang]

Btw here is a pic of one of my snail shells which came with Corline and looks like it's bleaching out what can cause this to happen?

 

[Sycoticrealm]

No one said it was coralline it the bacteria cycling of the rocks. Coralline follows once the rocks have good bacteria established on them.
And sometimes it takes it sweet butt time lol.