1 week into copper treatment

tim132

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After a suspected velvet/ich outbreak all fish have been transferred to hospital tank and treated in Cupramine for 1 week.

My hippo tang and kole tang were affected the most but I've had not losses yet and both tangs seem less light sensitive and are venturing out more today.


Just a couple of questions...


I'm wondering whether the large marks remaining on the hippo are typical of exit wounds from cyrpto beginning to heal?

I also suspect gill flukes as most fish still seem to be rubbing/scratching their lips and face against rock work. Is this behaviour typical to gill flukes?

EDIT: I should add, I fw dipped the hippo yesterday and after reading another post which mentioned scale-like particles seen after a fw dip are actually fallen off flukes. They're much larger than I expected.

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Jay Hemdal

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I would continue the copper for a minimum of two weeks. Yes, hepatus tangs are known to develop granulomas on their skin after infections. These will eventually heal once the disease is dealt with.
If you saw large flukes, those were likel Neobenedenia. FW dips will buy you some time, but you’ll need to treat the whole tank at some point. I prefer using half salinity for 35 days(to kill the eggs) but some people try praziquantel 3x, about 10 days apart with partial water changes.
Jay
 
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tim132

tim132

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Ok Jay, I'll definitely continue with the copper for at least another week. Good to know these are the first signs he's on the road to recovery.
I suspected flukes months ago in my reef tank and treated on 2 separate occasions with Fluke-Solve (which is supposed to be the UK equivalent of Prazi) - each time, 2 treatments, 7 days apart, which appears to have been unsuccessful.

I do like the idea running a lower salinity to combat flukes. When you say half salinity, are you meaning hypo-salinity @1.008ppt?

I have a concern about running a low salinity in the QT though...
I have ceramic rock, which has been incredible at holding nitrifying bacteria - No ammoina spikes with 12 fish!!
However it's soaking up around 0.04ppt copper per day. Could this have the potential to leech back into the water column causing copper to hit toxic levels quickly?

Running carbon during hypo is probably the answer to this question thinking about it.

Up to 0.25ppt would still be safe in low salinity should the rock leech, based on the dosage instruction for freshwater fish?

Once again thanks so much for your help, you're an absolute legend!!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Ok Jay, I'll definitely continue with the copper for at least another week. Good to know these are the first signs he's on the road to recovery.
I suspected flukes months ago in my reef tank and treated on 2 separate occasions with Fluke-Solve (which is supposed to be the UK equivalent of Prazi) - each time, 2 treatments, 7 days apart, which appears to have been unsuccessful.

I do like the idea running a lower salinity to combat flukes. When you say half salinity, are you meaning hypo-salinity @1.008ppt?

I have a concern about running a low salinity in the QT though...
I have ceramic rock, which has been incredible at holding nitrifying bacteria - No ammoina spikes with 12 fish!!
However it's soaking up around 0.04ppt copper per day. Could this have the potential to leech back into the water column causing copper to hit toxic levels quickly?

Running carbon during hypo is probably the answer to this question thinking about it.

Up to 0.25ppt would still be safe in low salinity should the rock leech, based on the dosage instruction for freshwater fish?

Once again thanks so much for your help, you're an absolute legend!!
For Neo, I go with half salinity, so 16 ppt or about 1.012 specific gravity.
I’m surprised that ceramic media is pulling copper out, but I’ve not tried your product. I don’t think that lower salinity will cause copper to leach out, but a low pH certainly will, and a pH drop during hypo is pretty common. I’m not a big fan of carbon, I don’t think it removes as much heavy metals as we used to believe. What about poly filter or other metal removers?
Jay
 
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tim132

tim132

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Right I'll look into an alternative to remove copper then. A poly filter or maybe look into Cuprisorb.
Can you just use soda ash for raising the pH?

Sorry if it seems like a basic question, I've never ran a low salinity before.

It seems like good media to be fair. If you're interested in finding out more info here's a link to the site http://www.alfagrog.com/
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Cuprisorb works also. You could raise the pH with sodium bicarbonate, but as long as it stays above 7.8, I usually don't bother.

I looked up the alfagrog - it isn't widely available in the US it seems. Cool looking material, can you just leave it on the floor of the tank as a substrate?

Jay
 
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tim132

tim132

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That's good to know, thanks!

I've only just come across the alfagrog myself Jay. A few UK reefers are having success using it in their sumps. I think its primary use is in ponds. I brought a 15kg bag for less than £20, an absolute bargain! I couldn't stomach paying £20 for a nice, small lump of Eco rock/Caribsea and smashing it into pieces just for the sump.

I'm not sure about using it as a substrate, the pieces are around +40mm, maybe if you break them up.
 

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