1 Yr. Established Clownfish Suddenly Bloated and Breathing Heavier

[george9]

Hi all,
Last night I noticed one of my clowns breathing faster than normal, and his stomach is slightly bloated looking, like he just had a huge meal. Today, his breathing and fat look continues but he also didn’t show any interest in his usual Marine Cuisine for lunch which was odd. He also had a piece of clear filament hanging from his butt. My other clown (the larger female) shows no symptoms, they’ve been in the tank together since January 2022 and no new fish additions since then. The last living thing added to the tank was a few corals from WWC on Dec 6, 2022. The fish is behaving pretty normally, the clowns always hang near the back but he generally sticks with the female and he hasn’t been isolating himself at all or hiding. When I fed today, the female came out to eat but the male stayed in the back and let the frozen foods pass by.


The odds this is something intestinal/constipation seem a lot higher than something parasitic or bacterial since I didn’t add any fish in a year. Am I wrong for leaning this way? Parasites/bacteria isn’t just going to pop up out of nowhere and infect the fish, unless it came on on food? I’ve been feeding them almost exclusively marine cuisine frozen food, which may be too much protein? I’m not sure…is it possible to get parasites or bacterial infections from frozen food? I am going to try brine shrimp later and see if he reacts, they usually go nuts for it.

Any advice is appreciated

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all,
Last night I noticed one of my clowns breathing faster than normal, and his stomach is slightly bloated looking, like he just had a huge meal. Today, his breathing and fat look continues but he also didn’t show any interest in his usual Marine Cuisine for lunch which was odd. He also had a piece of clear filament hanging from his butt. My other clown (the larger female) shows no symptoms, they’ve been in the tank together since January 2022 and no new fish additions since then. The last living thing added to the tank was a few corals from WWC on Dec 6, 2022. The fish is behaving pretty normally, the clowns always hang near the back but he generally sticks with the female and he hasn’t been isolating himself at all or hiding. When I fed today, the female came out to eat but the male stayed in the back and let the frozen foods pass by.


The odds this is something intestinal/constipation seem a lot higher than something parasitic or bacterial since I didn’t add any fish in a year. Am I wrong for leaning this way? Parasites/bacteria isn’t just going to pop up out of nowhere and infect the fish, unless it came on on food? I’ve been feeding them almost exclusively marine cuisine frozen food, which may be too much protein? I’m not sure…is it possible to get parasites or bacterial infections from frozen food? I am going to try brine shrimp later and see if he reacts, they usually go nuts for it.

Any advice is appreciated

May be an internal issue and mucus in the feces. A pic or two under white lighting will be helpful.
Due to foods, unless spoiled not likely. Liver issue, is also a possibilty. IF fish is eating you can try brine shrimp which often acts as a laxative .
A couple indicators of constipation are refusal to eat/loss of diet and the bloating you see. Again if eating an internal issue suspected, seachem Metroplex can be added to food but at a Super tiny amount as 5gm weight is recommended

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all,
Last night I noticed one of my clowns breathing faster than normal, and his stomach is slightly bloated looking, like he just had a huge meal. Today, his breathing and fat look continues but he also didn’t show any interest in his usual Marine Cuisine for lunch which was odd. He also had a piece of clear filament hanging from his butt. My other clown (the larger female) shows no symptoms, they’ve been in the tank together since January 2022 and no new fish additions since then. The last living thing added to the tank was a few corals from WWC on Dec 6, 2022. The fish is behaving pretty normally, the clowns always hang near the back but he generally sticks with the female and he hasn’t been isolating himself at all or hiding. When I fed today, the female came out to eat but the male stayed in the back and let the frozen foods pass by.


The odds this is something intestinal/constipation seem a lot higher than something parasitic or bacterial since I didn’t add any fish in a year. Am I wrong for leaning this way? Parasites/bacteria isn’t just going to pop up out of nowhere and infect the fish, unless it came on on food? I’ve been feeding them almost exclusively marine cuisine frozen food, which may be too much protein? I’m not sure…is it possible to get parasites or bacterial infections from frozen food? I am going to try brine shrimp later and see if he reacts, they usually go nuts for it.

Any advice is appreciated

When you see clear feces, that typically means it is just mucus. In turn, that means the fish either isn't eating, or has some sort of intestinal blockage. If the feces look whiter and more opaque, the issue can still be this, or it can be an overgrowth of Spironucleus / Hexamita gut protozoans. These are found naturally in most fish. Under certain conditions, their population explodes and makes the fish sick. You can treat for this with metroplex in the water (but in a treatment tank, not a display tank). You can also mix it in food at 1% by weight, but not if the fish isn't eating.

Jay

 

[george9]

May be an internal issue and mucus in the feces. A pic or two under white lighting will be helpful.
Due to foods, unless spoiled not likely. Liver issue, is also a possibilty. IF fish is eating you can try brine shrimp which often acts as a laxative .
A couple indicators of constipation are refusal to eat/loss of diet and the bloating you see. Again if eating an internal issue suspected, seachem Metroplex can be added to food but at a Super tiny amount as 5gm weight is recommended

When you see clear feces, that typically means it is just mucus. In turn, that means the fish either isn't eating, or has some sort of intestinal blockage. If the feces look whiter and more opaque, the issue can still be this, or it can be an overgrowth of Spironucleus / Hexamita gut protozoans. These are found naturally in most fish. Under certain conditions, their population explodes and makes the fish sick. You can treat for this with metroplex in the water (but in a treatment tank, not a display tank). You can also mix it in food at 1% by weight, but not if the fish isn't eating.

Jay

Interesting, thank you for the info! I will snap a few pics when I am home tonight again.

Say it was an overgrowth of gut protozoans, is it something that can clear on its own (granted he starts eating) or is it something that will eventually kill? I imagine a fish will die eventually if they cause it to stop eating for a while but do the bacteria itself in too high of populations ever cause death?

 

[george9]

Here is a video I just took, the clown in question is the Davinci clown (with the less white face). He really doesn’t look THAT bad at all - not nearly close to death but something is just off about him. For better or worse, I notice subtle changes in my fish or corals and it sometimes drives me nuts - especially when in the end there was no issue. You can see his breathing is quick compared to the larger female (orange storm) and he has had a clear/whitish strand hanging from his butt nearly all day. It’s hard to see his bloated tummy in picture or video, but he did eat 2 small pieces of brine shrimp which is good. He had no interest in marine cuisine or Formula 2 flakes. Maybe the little bit of brine will get things moving in his intestines

 

[george9]

And another video…here you can see the female pick on him a little bit, she doesn’t get too mean on him any more but when they were introduced to each other a year ago, the poor guy went through it until he began submitting to her.

His swimming behavior or “attitude” isn’t too worrisome - I’d be panicked if he hung out by himself away from his gal or was hiding in the rocks or laying by the sand. Bottom line from the videos is he’s very clearly breathing fast, has the clear/white strands of poop and a reduced appetite. Could be me over-reacting for now but I will observe over the coming days and see if his condition worsens

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Deja vue all over again (grin). I think there are at least three clownfish threads going on right now that seem to have the same issue - I’m bound to get them mixed up!
Rapid breathing and white feces are all possibly caused by gut protozoans. Metronidazole in the water in a treatment tank would be what I would try.
Jay

 

[george9]

Deja vue all over again (grin). I think there are at least three clownfish threads going on right now that seem to have the same issue - I’m bound to get them mixed up!
Rapid breathing and white feces are all possibly caused by gut protozoans. Metronidazole in the water in a treatment tank would be what I would try.
Jay

Haha I noticed right after I posted mine!

Are gut protozoans the same as the general “internal parasites” that I see thrown around a lot as an explanation for clear/white poop? And is there a risk to spread to the other clownfish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Haha I noticed right after I posted mine!

Are gut protozoans the same as the general “internal parasites” that I see thrown around a lot as an explanation for clear/white poop? And is there a risk to spread to the other clownfish?

There are a number of "internal parasites" but only two really cause white/clear feces and secondary symptoms like rapid breathing: Hexamita protozoans (treat with metro) and Coccidia (no treatment for the latter). Other internal parasites; tapeworms, flukes and nematodes typically do not cause white feces.

Jay

 

[george9]

T

There are a number of "internal parasites" but only two really cause white/clear feces and secondary symptoms like rapid breathing: Hexamita protozoans (treat with metro) and Coccidia (no treatment for the latter). Other internal parasites; tapeworms, flukes and nematodes typically do not cause white feces.

Jay

Thanks so much Jay, appreciate the info!

Before I go crazy and set up a whole QT system to treat with metro is there any sort of dip that can be helpful?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

T

Thanks so much Jay, appreciate the info!

Before I go crazy and set up a whole QT system to treat with metro is there any sort of dip that can be helpful?

No, not for internal issues, the contact time just isn't long enough.

Jay

 

[george9]

No, not for internal issues, the contact time just isn't long enough.

Jay

Ah okay, that makes sense.

Would you recommend I treat all fish in the tank? The 1 clown is the only showing symptoms right now, but there are 2 clowns and a gramma in the tank and if they all need to be treated it may just be easier to feed a medicated food to the main tank with focus - assuming the clown eats today. Metroplex is already on the way, is it safe to feed food soaked in metro + focus or GC + focus to a reef? I have soft/LPS/SPS corals and a ton of snails. If he refuses brine today then I will pick up QT supplies ASAP tomorrow and plan on treating QT water with metro instead.

Once again, forever grateful for your expertise!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ah okay, that makes sense.

Would you recommend I treat all fish in the tank? The 1 clown is the only showing symptoms right now, but there are 2 clowns and a gramma in the tank and if they all need to be treated it may just be easier to feed a medicated food to the main tank with focus - assuming the clown eats today. Metroplex is already on the way, is it safe to feed food soaked in metro + focus or GC + focus to a reef? I have soft/LPS/SPS corals and a ton of snails. If he refuses brine today then I will pick up QT supplies ASAP tomorrow and plan on treating QT water with metro instead.

Once again, forever grateful for your expertise!

Sorry, you can’t just mix metro and focus on food. That bit of advice is all over the place (including old posts here) but it doesn’t work - you need to calculate the dose. For metro, the dose is 0.5% by weight in gelatin diet. Trouble is metro is bitter and fish may avoid it.
I think metro in the water in a treatment tank is the best way to go. Since these protozoans are found normally in fish, you only need to treat the fish that are showing signs of disease.
Jay

 

[george9]

My other clownfish has white poop now although she is eating voraciously, and I am attributing it to the brine shrimp I’ve been feeding the last 2 days as a laxative. Kind of thinking about just moving both clowns to QT to treat them both as a precaution but I’d also hate to stress a healthy fish unnecessarily. The male clown who wasn’t eating actually looks a bit better today - slower breathing for sure and he actually ate a few pellets and is showing more general interest at feeding time (he chased a few pellets today too, but the female got to them first)

The QT tank is set up and temperature/salinity is equalizing right now. ufortunately I had to order Metroplex from Amazon and will arrive tomorrow, so I have some time to decide what I will do with the second clown. In the mean time, no one is doing poorly enough for me to be frantic about starting medication.

Since this most likely isn’t a worm/parasite of some sort and most likely gut protozoa, is the fish ever able to expel the protozoa by itself and make a recovery with no medication at all? Say the male clownfish eats even better tomorrow, is it possible to not even treat him and he recovers on his own? I’d hate to move and stress him while he’s showing positive signs of improving on his own

I am trying to think of all possibilities before I potentially move 1 or 2 fish and add stress since the medication hasn’t arrived just yet.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My other clownfish has white poop now although she is eating voraciously, and I am attributing it to the brine shrimp I’ve been feeding the last 2 days as a laxative. Kind of thinking about just moving both clowns to QT to treat them both as a precaution but I’d also hate to stress a healthy fish unnecessarily. The male clown who wasn’t eating actually looks a bit better today - slower breathing for sure and he actually ate a few pellets and is showing more general interest at feeding time (he chased a few pellets today too, but the female got to them first)

The QT tank is set up and temperature/salinity is equalizing right now. ufortunately I had to order Metroplex from Amazon and will arrive tomorrow, so I have some time to decide what I will do with the second clown. In the mean time, no one is doing poorly enough for me to be frantic about starting medication.

Since this most likely isn’t a worm/parasite of some sort and most likely gut protozoa, is the fish ever able to expel the protozoa by itself and make a recovery with no medication at all? Say the male clownfish eats even better tomorrow, is it possible to not even treat him and he recovers on his own? I’d hate to move and stress him while he’s showing positive signs of improving on his own

I am trying to think of all possibilities before I potentially move 1 or 2 fish and add stress since the medication hasn’t arrived just yet.

As you found out with the effect of Brine shrimp... Its assumed there is internal issue going on and if you are going to use Metro, use it dosed into the water and do note, it can affect invertebrates when used in this manner and removed carbon when using it but if you are doing this in a QT tank- you'll be ok

 

[george9]

As you found out with the effect of Brine shrimp... Its assumed there is internal issue going on and if you are going to use Metro, use it dosed into the water and do note, it can affect invertebrates when used in this manner and removed carbon when using it but if you are doing this in a QT tank- you'll be ok

Thanks! I plan to treat in a bare QT system, decided to definitely treat the male with symptoms but am undecided still about just treating both of them. I’d hate to treat the male and then have the female show some sort of symptoms in a couple weeks

How can I prevent this in the future? Maybe a better variety of foods? They primarily got Marine Cuisine and NLS pellets

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks! I plan to treat in a bare QT system, decided to definitely treat the male with symptoms but am undecided still about just treating both of them. I’d hate to treat the male and then have the female show some sort of symptoms in a couple weeks

How can I prevent this in the future? Maybe a better variety of foods? They primarily got Marine Cuisine and NLS pellets

Good water quality and diet are always the best preventative to disease.

 

[george9]

Good water quality and diet are always the best preventative to disease.

I wish I knew specifically what I did or fed though so I don’t do it again.

It might be possible it (or both of them maybe) always had this for the year I’ve had them and now it’s finally symptomatic. I have seen white poops periodically from them, not in over 6 months, but when they were newer and it would come and go. Never did anything drastic because they both ate like pigs. Hopefully metro is able to knock it out and I can swiftly return them home

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wish I knew specifically what I did or fed though so I don’t do it again.

It might be possible it (or both of them maybe) always had this for the year I’ve had them and now it’s finally symptomatic. I have seen white poops periodically from them, not in over 6 months, but when they were newer and it would come and go. Never did anything drastic because they both ate like pigs. Hopefully metro is able to knock it out and I can swiftly return them home

White poop generally mucus and assumed is an internal issue.
I dont think its anything you did or fed that was a contributor. Especially wild caught fish go through a lot of transport, handling/mishandling, transfer from collector to wholesaler to pet store and I dont know about you, but i'd be dog gone stressed and tired after all this. That is somewhat the position of the fish and stress if often the trigger to health issues. . . BOTH FISH AND HUMANS

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My other clownfish has white poop now although she is eating voraciously, and I am attributing it to the brine shrimp I’ve been feeding the last 2 days as a laxative. Kind of thinking about just moving both clowns to QT to treat them both as a precaution but I’d also hate to stress a healthy fish unnecessarily. The male clown who wasn’t eating actually looks a bit better today - slower breathing for sure and he actually ate a few pellets and is showing more general interest at feeding time (he chased a few pellets today too, but the female got to them first)

The QT tank is set up and temperature/salinity is equalizing right now. ufortunately I had to order Metroplex from Amazon and will arrive tomorrow, so I have some time to decide what I will do with the second clown. In the mean time, no one is doing poorly enough for me to be frantic about starting medication.

Since this most likely isn’t a worm/parasite of some sort and most likely gut protozoa, is the fish ever able to expel the protozoa by itself and make a recovery with no medication at all? Say the male clownfish eats even better tomorrow, is it possible to not even treat him and he recovers on his own? I’d hate to move and stress him while he’s showing positive signs of improving on his own

I am trying to think of all possibilities before I potentially move 1 or 2 fish and add stress since the medication hasn’t arrived just yet.

Tough to judge the outcome, even with medication. In theory, gut motility is the key to controlling these protozoans - if the food is moving through the gut faster than they can reproduce, their numbers will drop. However, in some cases, the fish stop feeding, and then all bets are off and you need to use metronidazole.

Jay