125G SPS thriving to RTN/STN

[Asthix]

Sonthe microscope just arrived, I'll have a look right after.
The ICP in the meanwhile was also done.
Result is strange for the MG as my salifert test kit does give me 1400 and i haven't done any water change since.

2 days ago I put my 36W UV right on the tank with a 500gph pump, a bit high it seems for that purpose.
I've ordered a 55w UV which should be enough in my case.

What do you think about micro bubbling while blowing onto corals/rock to get them floating to the uv/sump?

 

[ScottB]

My initial impression was to lean toward parasitic pods. Tegastes/white bugs, red bugs, etc. The tissue recession pattern matches my experience with them. I never seem to get rid of ALL of them, but an Interceptor treatment (X3) seems to buy me a year or two without necrosis. Mind you, I have never actually seen a pod on live acro flesh in my systems. Maybe it is just a coincidence.

Anything is possible, but I'd be a tad surprised to find Ostreopsis in a mature tank with residual nutrients constantly present. Prorocentrum, sure. Anyway, the 'scope will tell the story. I clacked up an article on dinos that has aged fairly well. Treatment plans grouped by species.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Asthix]

Finally got something, i can see dynoflagelate and diatoms (pizza but very few also):

I saw many many many ostreopsis for sure,prorocentrum a little amount.
I'm getting my hand on the material, I'll bring some cleaner pictures later on.
One thing: sample was taken on a brown string on a tenuis that bleached about a day ago and that i blown on few hours ago, it's sitting on a frag rack :

R.I.P

 

[sculpin01]

Yup. Ostreopsis. Are you running a ton of carbon?

 

[A. grandis]

The relationship between carbon and many types of these episodes is true! That has been happenning in my systems with zoanthids. I believe that not only the excess or sudden removal of some of the nutrients by he carbon, but also the stress of light change with the removal, when sudden. I strongly believe that the carbon releases some weird stuff in the water, used in the process of production! I have tried way too many types of carbon brands in my life, but I don't use any carbon anymore! The so called "bacterial infections" in my tank stopped at once when I stopped using activated carbon.

Also the excess of the administration of amino acids has been one of the things associated with some of my worse nightmares during years. I am a stronger believer in dosing aminos by hand only! I dose drops per week in my 75gal. and that is positive on the system! It does a boost on the zoas, but other organisms will take advantage of excess aminos, like bacteria and algae. Mike Paletta has been observing that also with some types of aminos!
There are too many microorganisms that play with attacking our corals and zoas. It's great to see some of the pictures here and remember things that have happened in my zoa system in the past. Many of the things I had in mind have been published here. Great thread.

I'll end this post saying that one of the best things we could do to avoid any type of "necrosis" (or the so called bacterial infection) is to quarantine the new stock for months without adding anything in that period to that quarantine. Setting up a system using only synthetic salt and dry rocks with bottled bacteria to start the main and the quarantine system. I think that is the only way to keep those pests out. Just the fact that we wouldn't introduce them is the simplest solution for the problem!

I am so sorry for the losses of your Acros!

 

[sculpin01]

The carbon is to absorb the large amount of palytoxin that the Ostreopsis bloom releases into the tank water. That and several other Ostreopsis-specific toxins are what leads to coral death. The carbon itself is not the cause of tissue loss but helps to prevent further coral death. Large volumes of activated carbon plus UV at night (when Ostreopsis is free swimming) and stopping amino acid dosing are the cornerstones of this treatment. It usually takes 2-3 weeks of doin this to stop the outbreak, although I would not restart amino acid dosing for quite some time.

 

[A. grandis]

The carbon is to absorb the large amount of palytoxin that the Ostreopsis bloom releases into the tank water. That and several other Ostreopsis-specific toxins are what leads to coral death. The carbon itself is not the cause of tissue loss but helps to prevent further coral death. Large volumes of activated carbon plus UV at night (when Ostreopsis is free swimming) and stopping amino acid dosing are the cornerstones of this treatment. It usually takes 2-3 weeks of doin this to stop the outbreak, although I would not restart amino acid dosing for quite some time.

Yeah, for the treatment. I was talking about regular use.
I understand the treatment needs to be followed as prescribed.
In other hand, in my opinion and experience, the presence of activated carbon has a negative effect when sudden infections happen.
Again, diagnostic is important, and in this case it's pat of the treatment.
I am traumatized by the use of activated carbon. I never had infections after stopping it's use in the regular basis and now I do more water changes to export nutrients and maintain water clarity in my zoa system. Because of that I also believe that the administration of carbon for such treatment could contribute somehow to the problem, depending on the situation.

 

[Asthix]

Update about the ongoing issue:

I've now installed 90W of UVC with a 600gph pump (measured).

I can see that since I've installed the UVC light directly in the tank, this is where things were going bad much faster .
SPS that were necrosing at the base end up completely white the next or so.

Strange things is most that I've fragged when I immediately see it STN, they mostly survived, while the rest of the coral is completely gone.

Could it be something that "liquify" in the Acropora tissue and then spreading to the rest of the colony?

This isn't an isolated observation, it's now everything that start to STN at the base, if I don't frag it immediately, the next day everything is pristine white.

This is since the uv put in the tank:

Could ostreopsis make it this bad to Coral and bleach them in a day or so while there polyps are fully extended ?
I've received chemiclean, should I give it a go?

 

[TX_Punisher]

Ostreopsis is no joke. I lost some pieces in my back tank a few weeks ago. Chemiclean wiped it out then remove with a fine net and blew off as much as I could with a turkey baster and pump. Water change and carbon after. Acros immediately looked better.

 

[Asthix]

Ostreopsis is no joke. I lost some pieces in my back tank a few weeks ago. Chemiclean wiped it out then remove with a fine net and blew off as much as I could with a turkey baster and pump. Water change and carbon after. Acros immediately looked better.

Do you mind describing the way you used chemiclean?
I've lost 50% of my thriving SPS dominated tank and now thinking about biting the bullet and treat just for sake of trying because it still seems to go downhill.

But then chemiclean or cipro is a good question

 

[Thales]

When did you change salt mix?

 

[sculpin01]

I tried chemiclean with my outbreak and it didn’t have a significant effect. However, it’s worth a try. When my tank was affected, coral death started at the bases and moved up to the tips. In one instance, I found the offending organisms massed at the edge of tissue loss.

There’s definitely the chance that you could have a secondary bacterial (Arcobacter) infection but treating the Ostreopsis outbreak with carbon will interfere with cipro administration. I’m not sure which I would choose to go with. However, the unhappy appearance of the coral tissue makes me think you still have Ostreopsis toxins in the water.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Do you mind describing the way you used chemiclean?
I've lost 50% of my thriving SPS dominated tank and now thinking about biting the bullet and treat just for sake of trying because it still seems to go downhill.

But then chemiclean or cipro is a good question

not much to it. Just followed the instructions. I’ve even over dosed with no issues. No skimmer cup, keep it on but let it overflow into the sump. Remove carbon and turn off uv. One trick I like after the second or third day, place the skimmer cup back on, attach a drain line to the cup if you have one, and the chemiclean will overflow into a bucket through your skimmer drain line if it has one. I turn off my topoff as this is removing tank water as well. Have a few gallons mixed up to replace what comes out via the skimmer drain. I find this way easier than a water change. It took 2-3 hours for the skimmer to stop overflowing. Then top off with fresh saltwater and turn your topoff back on and adjust it if necessary.

Good

 

[DesertReefT4r]

I had the same issue about 2 years ago with Ostreopsis dinos and coral lose. I lost all my sps and most of my LPS only a hammer and duncan coral survived. It started with a small bloom of cyano that I treated with Chemi Clean. Almost by the next day cyano shifted to Ostreopis. I 100% blame the Chemi. Clean for bringing out the dinos. It killed off bacteria and shifted the biological balance in favor of the bad organisms. In the end I had to do a soft reboot of the tank. Removed all sand, cleaned all live rock, got more live rock for mature reek tanks, added a bunch of pods, added UV and carbon, stopped all water changes for several months. Once green hair algea was taking off I started to deal with that and started water changes again. It took some time to get the tank balanced back out again but dinos have not returned since.

 

[Asthix]

Update after 10 days of cipro, i can say that it really slow down the RTN process but never stopped it.
I know put back the UV with carbon and we'll see.

How everything starts:

(I've chopped it)

And so far :

 

[Cory]

Im sorry about this. While dinos are problematic, im not convinced they are the cause of your sps death but possibly taking advantage of the aminos being released by rotting sps flesh. Now that its winter, whats your ph going down to? Whats it going up to? Do you graph it with a controller? Any new people living with you, or did you add a new gas oven in the house? Once again, sorry to see this.

 

[Asthix]

pH is constantly high, due to the outside air picked for the skimmer and going through carbon.
Also by dosing hydroxide 2 part.

Nothing has changed, nothing changed unfortunately.
It's getting harder and harder, most of them are now gone.
Everytime I put the UV on i see the flesh peeling the next day,even though I've put a 1L of new carbon in the display.

I'm thinking now of doing a last chemiclean treatment, I mean, what do I still have to loose.
UV is making the acro to peel.
Cipro have done nothing, even tried to double the recommended dosage.

My po4 and no3 have gone crazy high,I'm wondering if the bacteria dying have anything to do with it.
No3 gone 100 and po4 to 0.37!!
Done a 1/3 water change,i know I should for dino but dino shouldn't kill so agressively

 

[sculpin01]

Um, you sure your UV isn't leaking something toxic into the water?

 

[Asthix]

Um, you sure your UV isn't leaking something toxic into the water?

One is brand new and i checked both of them after a week of use.
What could make them leaking anything?

 

[Reefer4fun]

One is brand new and i checked both of them after a week of use.
What could make them leaking anything?

Did the chemiclean work?